Honda element windshield

Triathlon Forum
21

Mike, I am guessing you made reference to my first statement that these guys are crooks. While a harsh statement I stand by my words. Having been in the same situation with two different manufacturers involved I was taken care of “under warranty.” Now whether these two dealerships decided to take a chance on not getting reimbursed I don’t know, but it was pure customer service.

I certainly understand where you are coming from industry standpoint, and certainly each dealership has to make a decision about what kind of customer service they want to be remembered for and yes dealerships are in business to make money. But as long as the dealership is not abusing the warranty repair items they will be reimbursed. I just question this particular dealership’s stance, in particular the service advisor and/or manager.

22

agree…I talked to the service manager yesterday…was completely oblivious to what I was telling him…
Including that, in 3 years, we bought them 3 cars and send them several customers…
Now, if on monday he decides to ignore the TSB…I’ll make sure people know there…

23

I hope on Monday their stance changes. However, if it does not do some research to find out who the President of Honda of America is and make sure to write him a letter. Chances are you will hear something very quickly from the “office of the CEO.” And chances are they will make it right, not a guaranty but it has worked for me in the past.

24

Either that or I will have to pull a ‘I will tell everyone on slowtwitch.com’ like I did for travelocity earlier this year :wink:
.

25

I just bought an Element in October and absolutely love it. and I have read the website of which you speak. Cracks in windshields are notorious in the Phoenix area, in my other car I have had the windshield replaced 2x since moving here in 1998. Rocks and construction debris on the roads that pop up and hit your windshiled are the culprits. I have a no deductible glass rider on my auto, which is pretty common here in Phoenix.

That being said, if there is a flaw and obviously with a TSB out there is one, be relentless with the dealer in getting that fixed. The sqeauky wheel gets the grease.

26

when the car isn’t moving, your WS shouldn’t crack :wink:
we were parked…

but I agree, if that wasn’t for that problem, the car is great…now if they fix this one but can’t guarantee it won’t crack again…

27

Thank you, Francois, for posting this. I am looking for a larger utility (non-offroad) vehicle, but reading your post and reading info at the website you gave, I will NEVER buy a Honda Element and my view of Honda has gone down massively.

LOL! That’s like saying that because you know a guy who flatted while riding his P2K, that you’ll never buy a P2K and your view of Cervelo has gone down as a result. Haha. Aside from the fact that the Element (while very roomy) is not a large utility vehicle (it seats 4), to say that a possible design flaw in the windshield equates to the Honda Element being a shitty vehicle is poor reasoning.

I don’t own an Element, or drive a Honda… but from what I’ve seen the Element looks like great vehicle, and Honda is well-known for building reliable vehicles. ALL vehicles have issues; don’t shoot down the Element because of an issue with the windshield. Like another poster said… it all comes down to $$$. When it starts costing them (Honda) they will work towards fixing the problem - which it appears they are now doing.

28

Glad you had a good laugh.

I see this problem as far greater than a flat on a bike. There are 2 major ones here: This windshield thing is none other than a design flaw. Second is, Honda is being one hell of a devious weasel for not fixing this design flaw on their dollar. Sometimes it is the right thing to do to admit one’s mistakes and fix them. Apparently Honda is remiss in this regard.

Good enough reason for me to avoid an otherwise decent looking car. Don’t fool yourself, good PR matters.

29

Well, you can’t really have problem 2 in the absense of problem 1. However, for something to reach the level of admitted “design flaw” status, there needs to be enough people complaining about the problem. I don’t know how many instances there have been with the windshield cracking, but a few instances would not equate to (in their minds) a design flaw. As an owner, I might be inclined to think differently :slight_smile: If the numbers grow, then (in their minds) they would have to admit to a problem, because, quite frankly, the evidence would then exist to demonstrate this. Once they admit to it, they do a cost/benefit analysis, and decide how to address the problem.

From what I have read, do I believe that a problem exists? Yes… absolutely. Does this make me not like the Element? Nope. I think it’s a great vehicle with a structural design flaw which stresses the windshield enough to cause it to crack. When they sort this out, I would buy one with confidence.

I know that of the 13 or 14 vehicles that I have owned (four of them purchased new), every one has had some kind of re-call. I would argue that every vehicle ever manufactured, has had problems, design flaws, and subsequent re-calls. Over time most get sorted out. Are Honda being sneaky weasels by waiting until they hit a certain number of failures before they “admit” to the problem? Perhaps… but so is EVERYONE else. That’s the inherent nature of the beast.

Yes, I chuckled at your post. Please don’t take it personally… I laugh at myself all the time!

Cheers.

30

The number one thing that jumps out at me is calling the Element an SUV. I guess that’s because SUV makes me think of truck underpinnings and structure. The Element is a car, not a truck. It’s not designed to be but a gentle-use very-occasional off-road vehicle, and is much more at home on the pavement. The opposite is the Hummer that Mom never even drives onto the flat soccer field on Saturday mornings.

This Element is my fifth Honda. Like most of them, it is reliable, relatively economical, and relatively inexpensive. I did have an Accord V6 that had it’s transmission replaced (no charge) at about 2500 miles. Then, the bottom end of the engine began making bad noises. They offered to replace the engine to go with my new transmission. I dumped the car instead. But, I’ve bought three more since that one. Never had another problem. Not one. Not in over 100,000 miles of driving after that one Accord that was whacked.

Honda isn’t the only car I’ve had that was a bad sample. I had VW buy a Jetta back from me after they couldn’t solve an apparent wiring harness problem. I had a Saab with a bent frame direct from the factory…the alignment people couldn’t believe the car hadn’t been wrecked, but, it was obviously 100% factory original…no work had ever been done on it, the frame was simply bent. I owned a subsequent flawless VW and another Saab (but my next Saab kept having the front suspension bolts loosen, and they replaced the rear glass due to a malfunctioning defroster wiring system).

My point is, sometimes there are problems with any make vehicle. I was very polite to the VW people, and consequently, they always found a car for me to drive while trying to fix my first one. I put over 5000 miles on their “complimentary” vehicles until they bought it back from me at my original contract price. If I would have blown my top and been beligerant, I don’t think I would have had such good treatment. The service people are people, trying to do a good job for the most part, and they respond favorably to being treated with respect, just as most people.

If you are trying to buy from a maker that has no problems with any of their cars, you won’t find a car to buy. An ex-co-worker was sold a Mercedes as New, when it had been in a wreck in transit and had been repaired. The repair cost less than a certain percentage (I think he said 25%, but, I think the law now says 10%…but, I don’t know) of the MSRP of the value of the car, so, it was legal to still be sold as new since it had never been titled. Bummer. How about Chrysler products? In the 80’s, I had 26 fuel pumps put on a Chrysler in two months. Recently, i think it was the Dodge truck that had the highest rate of problems of any new vehicle. Toyota? Knew a fellow that drove around with a lemon sign atop his car trying to get something done about his lemon Toyota. Hummer? Bummer…fellow at work just dumped his less-than-year-old Bummer. He said that besides feeling like you were riding in a big, cheap, plastic fishing tackle-box, it was always in the shop. Ford? It isn’t called Fix Or Repair Daily for nothing. GM? Got Money (to spend on repairs)? I used to live next door to an ex-GM field rep. He relayed a story about mechanics asking why GM quit making X transmission. The mechanics kept saying that X transmission was bulletproof and it never broke…my neighbor said he’d tell them that if GM kept making X transmission, all the transmission specialists would lose their jobs.

Recently, I heard an entire boatload of Kias was lost at sea. Total loss. Insurance company paid the full replacement value of the fleet. Total payout? $3000.00. (Just a joke.)

You can find bad PR on any mass manufactured car, all you have to do is look for it. They are imperfect machines. Some companies seem to do a better job than others most of the time. I’ll bet Honda is one of the better imperfect manufacturers; alleged Element windshield incident(s) included.

31

Not taken personally at all. But read “The Machine that Changed the World” and you will quickly discover that not all lines of products have such numerous design problems and recalls. Have you owned a lot of American cars?

32

Funny you should mention Phoenix. I too had my windshield chipped there on my jeep. I’m not sure why but there seem to be a lot of stones on the highways there. Maybe because it rarely rains the stuff never gets washed off the road or something. Also all the stones seem to be pretty sharp.

33

Rolf Titan

I have 3 cracks and 2 chips in my windshield now. None in the field of view. I have the worst luck with windshields that I have given up. I have never owned a clean windshield for more than 3 weeks in my 36 years.

34

Have I owned a lot of American cars? Hmm… I don’t know the count. I’ll list everything I’ve owned in the order that I’ve owned them.

1964 Vauxhall Victor (British), 1980 Kawasaki KZ750 (Japanese), 1972 Ford Cortina (British), 1976 Honda Civic (Japanese), 1974 Fiat (Italian), 1976 Volvo (Swedish), 1981 Honda Civic (Japanese), 1974 Chevy Nova (North American), 1987 Ford Tempo (North American), 1972 Chevy Blazer (North American), 1990 Nissan Pathfinder (Japanese), 1997 Honda Valkyrie (Japanese), 1987 Honda Shadow 1100 (Japanese), 1997 Ford F-150, extended cab, 4x4 (North American), 1998 Kawasaki KLR650 (Japanese), 2000 Ford Focus (British Import - now North American).

I think that’s it.

So of the 16 vehicles: 2 1/2 British, 1 Italian, 7 Japanese (4 motorcycles), 1 Swedish, 4 1/2 North American.

The KZ750 and Pathfinder are still rolling - the Pathfinder with over 400,000 k’s.

(Edit #1: Forgot my truck)

(Edit #2: Forgot my '76 Civic)

35

Francois,
I haven’t had a spontaneous crack in my E’s windshield yet. But I have had to replace it twice now due to flying rocks from trucks along the I-95 corridor.
My solution is that my insurance company has a winshield replacement program (USAA insurance). I have a 0$ deductible on that part of my coverage. It adds about 6$ every six months to my total bill. Since I’ll be here in northern VA for about 4 more years I figure that’s a fair price.
Anyway…that’s my solution…I’m guessing that will cover me if I ever have a spontaneous crack, as well.

Incidently…for those with any of the Hondas that have that mysterious rattle…I found the perfect solution…I got some round 1/2 inch foam insulator at Lowes (near the door insulation). Cut it to length and push it into the gap between the windshield and dash. No more rattles.

36

Wow, you’ve owned one hell of a lot of cars and vehicles. I am 40 and have owned a whopping 2: a yamaha RD400 motorbike when I was younger (long since sold) and an '89 toyota camry wagon (which I still have). That’s it.

37

Ok, I’m sure this has been beaten to death, but I’m gonna throw in my two cents to the argument-at-large.

Cent #1: Windshield damage (chips, cracks, scratches, etc.) are generally an insurance claim, not a manufacturer responsibility. Once the vehicle leaves the lot, there’s no telling what the hell the owner has put it through (rocky roads, tailgating large trucks, sandstorm, hail, etc.), so the potential cause is very hard to pinpoint. By and large, most insurers in the US have low or no deductables for windshield glass repair/replacement and you’ll get a lot less hassle from them, as they expect these things to happen in the real world.

Cent #2: Getting Honda (or any automaker, for that matter) to admit fault in a matter such as this, will require more than just a handful of consumer complaints and a website or two. Admitting fault will cost them a lot of money, and right now, they can get away with not doing it. Anyone remember the Firestone Tire issue a few years back? The first few incidences that were reported, they absolutely denied fault, because to accept it would have been a bad business decision.
We can break it down like this (you Fight-club fans will remember this little speech from Edward Norton’s character)

Take the number of cars in service “A” times the percentage chance of failure “B”. Multiply that by the average settlement cost “C”.
A x B x C = X If “x” is less than the cost of a recall, they won’t do it.
Automakers aren’t out there to make goodwill, or give anyone the warm fuzzies. They want to make money. They will continue on their current path of activity until such time as it becomes a bad business decision. There are more people out there that have had absolutely no problem with the Element, and there are future buyers that will have a positive experience as well. There are also people out there that will complain. You can’t please all the people all the time, and trying to do so will put you out of business. Are you wrong to complain? No. Am I defending Honda? I don’t think so. I don’t own one, and It’ll be a long time before I’m even in the market for a new car. Hell, I have to get a job first. (anyone looking to hire a Trainer in the Memphis area?) I actually encourage your bringing this issue to Honda, because maybe it’ll give them reason to update a future model year so that this happens less, and everyone really is happy. except those people that had to suffer through the early model years.

Oh, and before I get off my podium, don’t forget that the Element is a relatively new model line, and they never get anything completely right with the first try. so please complain and tell them everything that went wrong, so that when I do get a job, and need to get a new car, I can get an Element that’s had all these little problems “fixed”.

Sorry for length.

Andy

38

However, I am fairly sure that a TSB saying that for vehicles with a VIN between XXX and YYY, normal warranty applies on windshield will do the trick…

39

I believe you are correct, sir.

40

I’m also 40.

Maybe growing up on a farm has allowed me to have more vehicles cause having a couple at a time isn’t a parking problem? Haha… I was surprised myself when the number reached 16 for me. Alot of them - like the Volvo, the Fiat, the Vauxhall, the '76 Civic, I had for less than a year. The Cortina brings back memories; I bought that car for a few hundred when I was 18 and turned it into my auto-shop project for the year. The last thing I did before I left high school was give it a new paint job. Right now I have my KLR650 and my ZX3 Focus. I really liked my F150, but the rising price of fuel gave me too much reason to sell it in 2000 and buy the car - which I already have 140,000k’s on.