Hines Park TT in SE Michigan

Triathlon Forum
1

I just wanted to throw a shot out to the Dearborn Saddlemen who put on the Hines park TT this past Sunday. If you’re a triathlete who has never done a TT, it’s a must to do at least once. If you live in Southeast Michigan, this is one that you should do. This was my fourth TT since I started. They are super humbling.

Registering was quick. They marked all the miles, which is a nice touch. They have both the individual and 2 person team event, which is also nice. And they have the results up almost as soon as you finish (and on the website the same night). You also get to ride with lots of seriously fast cyclists.

The best $20 I ever spent on any race. Now if I could just figure out how to go faster…

2

I was there. It was my first TT. Very well run race. I’d bet 2/3 of the Cat 5 racers were triathletes. Hines drive was closed to traffic and it was a simple out and back 12 mile course. Doing a time trial was fun, even the parts where I thought I was going to puke. This “Race of Truth” thing is a lot harder than it looks on TV.

3

Forgot to mention the closed road thing. That’s the best part, since you can use the whole lane, and not have to worry about drafting or blocking. The other TT out there, the Wolverine State Championships 40K, is also closed. Excellent road surface as well.

4

Don’t remind me— I begged them to let me enter the race on Friday afternoon but there were not willing to allow the late registration. (Registration had closed on Thursday.) Maybe since they were fascists about the registration process it helped them run an orderly check-in on Sunday.

I tried not to think about it when I did my 15 mile time trial on my own Sunday afternoon. Anyone else getting sick of training alone?? I’m in a final stage of IM training and have not been willing to compromise the workout plan. That means so many freaking rides and runs on my own.

Doh!

-Marc

5

That’s a bummer.

But - they had a reason. They had pre assigned start times for each rider which they posted on Friday evening. I felt like one of the big boys as I pulled up to the line directly from my warm up and was launched about a minute later. I don’t think it helped me go any faster but it was cool. They even had a clock that beeped out the last 5 seconds before the start but they need to get one of those starting houses with a ramp :wink: The start was downhill though and I did hit 28 mph within about 200 yds of the line unfortunately I could only hold that for about 10 seconds not 12 miles.

6

Did you run your cyclocomputer during the race? I’m curious about the distance. Was it 12 miles, 20K or somewhere in between?

7

It was 12 miles.

8

MarcK,

As a Cycling Saddleman (fascist) I’m trying to understand what was so difficult about preregistering before Thursday night at midnight? Just in the interest of trying to improve the event. There was online registration, by the way.

How should we have addressed the rider who arrived at 9:15 AM after registration closed at 9:00 AM had there been day of registration? Other complaints about day of registration are that you have to be there before the event starts (very early) and then because your start time is near the end of the event, you have many hours to wait to race.

We tried very hard to conduct the most professional and well (smoothly) run time trial in the area.

All timing was computerized, not chip timing, but computerized. A significant amount of data entry was required to accomplish this. By restricting entry to pre-event registration only, we were able to manage this data entry and preassign start times for all participants. This permitted each participant to construct his/her own warm up schedule before they even arrived for the event, a feature of professional cycling events.

There still was a mountain of registration work to do on the day of the event. Distribution of bib numbers (each bib number included the participants name and start time), verification of annual racing licenses, sale of day of racing licenses for those who did not have annual licenses, and completion of racing waiver of liability.

The timing and computer guys were able to concentrate on ensuring the equipment was working properly, manage any bugs, and address only issues related to the existing database. Their day was not further complicated by by trying to expand that database in addition to everything else. Our event and the participants were not subjected to any additional complications from day of registrations.

One of the frequent protests at time trials is that the cat 5 rider who won and started at 9:00 didn’t have any wind to race against and the cat 5 rider who registered day of and started at 10:38 had very significant winds to race against. If you noticed, all start times for each category were in the same grouping!

There were preassigned start times that were posted Friday for every participant. The timer also had each participants name, category, affiliation, bib number and license number. This was essential to enabling the timer to deal with nearly 200 participants and being able to post results almost immediately. Results were finalized in less than an hour, including any protests. This was preferred to the not uncommon 2-3 hours, or more, to post final results at other race events.

We try to conduct an event and have the participant’s experience be the closest they could come to a professional cycling event of the highest level. Much of the feedback we have received concerning the running of this event confirms that we have been very successful in trying to achieve our goals.

I am sorry that you missed the registration deadline. In hind sight, it may have been possible to assign a start time for you for a rider who did not start, but we were not trying to manage that contingency. Frankly, I think the computer and timing people were grateful of that! They were a big part of why this event operates so smoothly and why it is as well run as it is. We feel working with them and trying to meet their needs is an equally important part of the secret to success as is meeting and/or exceeding the expectations of the participants in this event.

I happen to love time trials. I would invite you to organize, publicize and conduct an open time trial for regional competition. I am sure many cyclists would welcome another event to compete in. I know I would. Maybe we could learn some things from observing and participating in an event conducted by someone else.

Oh, by the way, I guess your not doing IMMOO this year. Registration for that event opened at the conclusion of last years event and closed after 48 hours, 363 days before the event was to be held!

If there is any consolation for your experience, perhaps it can be in getting you prepared for the preregistration issues with triathlon events. Are there even any day of registrations for tri events. I thought all RDs moved away from that so they could better manage the financial hardships of these events.

Thank you for your criticism.

jackattack,

Thank you for your praise. I’m pleased to hear you enjoyed participating in this event.

Although it is billed as a 20 km TT which would be approximately 12.4 miles in length, the actual course is closer to 12.1-12.2 miles in length and somewhere closer to 19.5-19.6 km. I believe there were some road/safety issues with the turn around the first year it was conducted. Then, after a course record was established, it gets a little difficult to lengthen the course while expecting someone to break the record set on a shorter course. That hardly seems fair.

Everyone rode the same course that has not changed in the three years we have conducted this event, except the few riders who rode right past the turn around. Maybe they thought it was a food stop and they didn’t need any.

9

Hi Ben.

There was Saturday registration for the Steelhead Half Ironman triathlon and it exists for most bike races.

To be clear, no one in the Cycling Saddlemen club had any obligation to give me any special treatment— I emailed in a request for late entry on Friday at around 5:00 PM, the day after registration closed, and followed it up with a call on Friday as well. The race was on Sunday so I thought there was a chance that you would squeeze me in, especially since the posting of scheduled start times on Friday indicated that there would be slight changes to the schedule on Saturday. My expectation was that since there were computerized timings it would not be too hard to add one rider to the schedule and have the computer recalculate the start times, but based on the note sent to me and your posting on this forum evidently I was mistaken. It sounds like your computer timing system is complex and would take a great effort to reprogram. It must have been a huge bitch just getting everything set up to begin with.

Anyway, I don’t see why you are bothering to argue with me— You won. I didn’t race Sunday and it sounds like the race went off without problems.

-Marc

“You can’t break the law. You can only break yourself against the law.” (Cecil B. Demille)

10

I was there, though I did not race. I worked the start line, holding up racers as they prepared to roll off for 30 odd minutes of pain. I had a blast! and will give it a go next year. Working the start was a great way to see all manner of gear and preparedness, from the cat 1 guys on custom frames with disc wheels to 1 guy on a “comfort bike”, I even saw an old Rivendale…classic! Some folks were very prepared and rolled up to line a minute or so prior to thier start time with a nice sweat on thier legs, others were early, and a few were late, thus receiving a self imposed time penalty. All in all it was a great way to spend a Sunday morning and I look forward to puking my guts out next year.

Vince

11

Ben,

 Thanks for the info.  I'm curious about how you got so fast from the State Champs to this one.  Actually there were at least 3 guys who finished after me at the 40K that beat me at the 20K (I also finished a lot higher percentage wise in the group at the 40K), including the guy who won on Sunday.  Is that a pretty typical increase in speed for you when you go from a 40K to a 20K, or did increase your fitness that much in the past month or so?  Have a bad day at the 40K or start late?  I'm kind of new to this, so I'm curious as to how much of an increase in speed is typical when going to the shorter event (on the same terrain).

Jack

12

I was at the TT this weekend as well, what a blast. I did both the individual and the 2man team TT(Team Cheeseburger). I enjoyed both. All my training this year has been for IMLP, I thought my heart was going to explode going full tilt like that for 28 or so minutes twice. My partner was awsome and we hope to do it again, hopefully he will not make the race his maiden voyage on his new ride again, and I will be a little better recovered from IMLP 2005. Anyway thanks Cyclingsaddleman, great event, it would be nice if there were more TTs in the area.

JT

13

Cullen has another new bike?!? What’s he riding now?

14

I’m on a Guru Chrono.I get a new one each year and ride it just once so i have an excuse for being so slow.I’m going to hate life after the Six day race. Sunday I have to do the half IM bike in Lansing.That will be my second ride om the bike.
Cullen

15

jackattack,

I’m assuming your interest in my performance is an interest in me in particular and not in “you guys” in general. It should not be surprising at all. Since the State Championship I’ve been using PEDs. Just kidding.

The State Championship was the day after our monthly Club Personal Achievement Time Trial (PATT). Since I had never ridden a 40 km TT before, I expected I would end up being a small fish in that big pond. Especially in my first effort at that distance. I accepted this lot. My logic was why pass up our Club PATT (10 mile/16 km) to “save” myself for an event that I would end up middle of the pack at best.

So I put in a maximum effort on Saturday before the State Championship and had the best time in our Club PATT, 25:07.67. Not quite 24 mph average. I was a big fish in the small pond!

On Sunday at the State Championship, I rode for the experience to be gained from competing in a 40 km event. And what an experience it was! I hurt so bad each time out (west). I wanted to just sit up and quit so bad to make the pain and hurt go away. Why should I endure this? My first “loop” was just over 30 minutes. The second loop was much slower. Going up those little rises was devastatingly slow. I had almost nothing in my legs to get me up them. My second loop of agony was about 6 minutes longer than the first loop had been.

To my surprise, I finished less than a minute and a half out of a medal with my compromised effort! I’m sure that had I not ridden hard on Saturday, I could have performed better on Sunday in the State Championship. Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not regretting what I did, only realizing a surprising discovery. I could have been a bigger fish in that Beg pond than I thought I could have been.

There is also a fitness issue that I think my racers fail to consider adequately. At 16-20 km, more of a sprint, endurance does not play the same issue that it does at 40 km. I suspect you are much more fit than you are giving yourself credit for. This begins to show most impressively over the 40 km distance. At 40 km, you kicked some ass Jack! Congratulations.

I think that generally, most riders will slow their average speed about 1/2-1 mile an hour for a 40 km distance vs a 10-12 mile distance.

I was also surprised at how few cyclists were “fit” for the 40 km distance. For all those “boys” ahead of me this year, yourself included, look out next year.

The June 26th PATT was my first race on my new TT bike. In July’s PATT, I rode 24:33.64, a personal best and breaking the 25 minute barrier for the first time. I’m trying to break 24 minutes before the season is over. That is my goal for this year.

Allen Duncan, a cat 4 racer and 2nd at the State Championship, was 7 second faster than I was in the July Club PATT. We are very good friends and very close in ability and compete vigorously against one another. Al did not race on Saturday, June 26th, he was saving himself for Sunday and the State Championship. Had I not raced Saturday, I believe I would have been in the 62-63 minute range.

I agree with you that from 1:05:41.62 in a 40 km to 28:48.14 in a 20 km is a most impressive improvement. There must have been some issues with the 40 km effort. Illness?, recovery?, training or lack of?, poor sleep that night? (too excited ), etc. You get the picture.

Eric Schmidt has been a very competitive time trialist last year and this year. He is tough competition for me. Jason Brake is a racer who concerns me greatly. He is young, strong, and gifted. It is only a matter of time before he begins to return the favor and starts kicking my butt. He is still going up the learning curve for time trialing, but he is rising fast!

Jack, your time for the State Championship improved last year to this year. I did not see your name on the 2003 Hines Park Time Trial results. You must not have competed last year. But it looks like you have been continuously improving.

I do know how you feel, however, about what you feel is a subpar performance or a performance that you are just not satisfied with. I rode faster than last year, about 45 seconds faster, but the first 2-3 miles Sunday felt like I had been out Saturday riding hills very hard. My legs just didn’t feel right and “snappy”. I was disappointed with my effort Sunday even though to many, it was a significant improvement. Our consolation, there’s always the next race and our desire to improve. At least we are doing something that is healthy for us and we enjoy immensely. Our wives know we’re not running around from bar to bar with wild women. Maybe that could be fun too, but I just can’t find the time to get started.

I hope to meet you some time at one of these events and say hi. I apologize for not being able to recognize you, but if you recognize me, by all means take a minute and introduce yourself to me. I would love to make you acquaintance. I know you are a duathlon kind of guy, I have reluctantly refrained from that so far. Are you planning to ride in any upcoming cycling events? Until then, good luck with your training.

And thanks again for your plug for the Hines Park Time Trial event. I hope you come again next year.

16

Thanks for the info, that does provide some insight.

I have come to cycling from triathlon. I did one Du last year, but that’s it. I only have done 6-7 multisport events to my short career, and only 4 bike races. My background is running, but for last 5 years I have had terrible problems with shin splints. Last year, my first year racing triathlons, I ended up with a stress fracture. So this year started as a year to really figure out how to heal the shin splints, but has turned into basically just a cycling focus. I don’t have a road bike, so other events besides TT’s are out of the question. I’m also a little afraid I might like it too much and abandon the triathlon thing all together :slight_smile:

I have seen the Saddlemen PATT’s and have wanted to join the club and come out to those, but I have had conflicts on every one of them. I rode with the saddlemen once last year on the wed. ride, but this year I have been riding with the 6:30 group on Wed. since a few of my riding partners participate in that one. Do you ever participate in that ride? Unfortunately I wouldn’t recognize you either, I just recognized your name (from your posts here) on the results list the past couple of TT’s. If you ever see a guy in a University of Michigan Jersey on a black Cervelo One, that would be me. I’m sure I’ll run into you on one of these occasions.

Congrats on the race performances, I don’t think you have much to worry about with me next year at the State TT, looks to me like I’ll be chasing you.

17

Jack,

Since the rides moved back to 6:30 from 6:00, there have been very few 6:30 Wed rides I have participated in. When they left at 6:00, I would ride with the group through Rouge Park and down to Military/Outer Drive split or Cherry Hill and then head back to Ford Field to ride with the Saddlemen and socialize with friends for a few minutes before taking off on that ride.

If the weather cooperates tomorrow, I’ll try to make the 6:30 ride. At least head out with that group. Allen Duncan rides with that group frequently. You have probably recognized him on the dark blue Cannondale.

I’ll try to keep an eye out for you. I’m the one who rides on the Serotta. Used to be a csi until I crashed on a Wed night ride on June 23, 2004. Another factor in the State Championship. The csi sustained major damage. So did my heart. I’ve been riding a dark red, almost black, rapid tour. I’m usually pulling in the parking lot just before the 6:30 group heads out.