I was wondering if you could all give me advic on my running. I just did my 3rd ironman in 12 48 in austria with a 5 36 marathon. I feel that my run is letting me down big time. I do not come from a running background and dont do half enough running that I should.
I weight 201lbs and am 6ft - not muscle and am overweight. My bike times were 5hr 55 and swim 1he 08.
Is it prossible to train for austria next year and go sub 4. Can anyone guide me on how I should start now to become good at this section. Do i try and up mileage from 20/25 mpw to 70/80 over next 6 months.
or just get “Going Long” by Byrn. It is all in there. At our level this isn’t rocket science - it just takes a lot of smart and consistent work over a period of years…
you can definitely get your run time down, but you will need to lighten up & firm up (as you already know!), stay healthy, get more aerobic miles in your legs, and pace the race correctly. are you sure you are pacing your bike adequately?? a 5:30 marathon means a whole lotta walking… what were your other 2 IM times?
I wouldnt set arbitrary mileage goals. Focus instead on frequency and consistency.
2003 - austria 15hr 01 - 1hr 12, 6 hr 38 and 6 hr 40
2005 - lanzarote - 1hr 05, 7hr 55, 5 hr 40
My stand alone best times are 5km at 27min, 10km at 52 min, half marathon at 1hr 58
believe it or not I actually didnt walk at all (I think) - jogged even tjough really slow at end. I think I also have a physcological issue with my weight - I keep on thinking that I cant run because of my weight.
Based on your standalone times, Del, it appears you are going too hard on the bike. You are certainly capable of running at least a 4:30 mary in an IM, but I have to believe a 5:55 bike isn’t leaving anything in the tank to run what your are capable of. It is hard to know for sure, but a 15-30 minute slower bike might gain 30-60 minutes on the run.
There is a tendancy to over think this and make it more complicated. Some straight forward and simple things that will help.
Realize that triathlon running and IM triathlon running in particular is not ALL about pure run fitness. It’s a balance of great bike fitness AND run fitness.
From time to time get off a balanced program and focus on just one sport. Take a 2 - 4 month block and focus on bike or run with minimal work on the other sports. You will be amazed at the gains you will make when you do this and equally amazed at how little you will loose in the other sports if done only 1 or 2 times a week while you focus on one sport.
Increase run frequency: At first don’t run more volume, just run more days per week, then let volume build
Bike leg pacing is critical. The big heros on this forum seem to be the guys that “hammer” and “attack” on the bike. Strange, because these are never the same guys consistantly winning the races. Take a clue from the most consistant race winners and top placers - pace the bike, so that you can run to the BEST of your ability. The reality is that an IM bike leg should be NO MORE than a moderatly hard training ride. If it’s more than that you are going too hard.
For people from a non-running back-ground this is the single training protocol that really has a direct cause-and effect relationship. It’s remarkable to me how few triathletes seem to really get this. I think that part of the problem is that they get these nice balanced programs from their coaches/trainers with 2 - 3 workouts/week in each sport and leave it at that. That’s a great way to get started, but you can’t take your training to the next level in a sport when you are only doing it 2 - 3 times/week. That’s not enough overload or frequency.
My girlfriend was the classic example of this. Came to triathlons from a non-running back ground. She is a very strong cyclist, and when I met her, she was doing well in races, but was loosing a number of places on the run in every race. She had the typical 3 runs a week program. We started a higher running frequency program and the results after a year of this were remarkable. There was not that much structure to her running for most of the year - she just got out and ran whenever she could even if it was for 20 minutes. Results: stand-alone 1/2 marathon time droped 10 minutes to 1:26. Stand-alone 10K time dropped 5 minutes. IM marathon time dropped by 20 minutes to 3:25! Overall, she is now one of the stronger runners in the triathlon races that she enters and has won a number of races now on the run!
The big heros on this forum seem to be the guys that “hammer” and “attack” on the bike. Strange, because these are never the same guys consistantly winning the races.
Yeah, but would you rather win races or be a hero on ST?
Correct. I think many people are afraid to put in the running time, though, because running has a reputation for being the highest injury-producing activity of the three (rightly so, I might add…running is toughest on the body)…Its a matter of moderation and slowly building up…Injuries are NOT inevitable from running…
Good advice here, but I would also add that losing weight will get you quicker in a hurry, both running and on the bike. A combination of upping your running regimen and cutting down and improving the quality of your food intake will pay huge dividends. Give yourself a couple of months to be “that guy” who eats healthy and I bet you will be surprised at the results. When friends and family start telling you that you are too skinny you are making progress.
Personally, I also found that many of the aches and pains incurred from running vanished when I dropped some lbs.
Also, I found that running in the heat got a LOT easier.
I have both of these books. Noakes’ at 900+ pages is more of a reference book. JD’s is my current favorite. I also have books from Salazar, Pfitzinger, Galloway, Lydiard,…
After JD’s Formula, I would then say Pfitzinger has the next best book(s).
JD’s tables for finding VO2 max and then your paces for certain types of training (easy, marathon pace,…) are quite helpful.
I probably own 20 books on running, all purchased in the last year.
I too am 201 Lbs and a hair under 6’. My advice is lose weight, get in your LSD and do lots and lots of speedwork. Also join a running club that specializes in marathon preparation.
I am doing exactly what you prescribe, and it works! I have virtually dropped the swim and bike only once a week. I now run 6 or 7 times per week, even if it is only 3 miles. I also added speed work. Since I have focused only on running (about 6 weeks now), I have dropped from about a 28 minute 5K to about 25 minutes. Again, I am the same height and weight as Delboy223.
My stand alone best times are 5km at 27min, 10km at 52 min, half marathon at 1hr 58
Your running times make no sense.
Your 5K is at about 9:00 pace,
your 10K is at about 8:20 pace, and
your 1/2 marathon is at 9:00 pace.
There is no way your 5K should be so slow.
Your VDOT value based on daniels would be 35, 38 and 37 for the 5K, 10K and 1/2 marathon based on Daniel’s tables. Using your best VDOT as a predictor, you should be able to do a 3:59 for a full stand alone marathon. My guess is the elite IM’ers probably go 15 to 30 minutes slower in their IM marathons (experts chime in here). So I would say you should be able to do a 4:30 to 4:45 in a IM. My guess is you need to do as Fleck and others suggested and focus on your running.
I am still baffled by your 10K time vs. your 5K time. You obviously negative split the 2nd 5K in your 10K races by 2 minutes!
That’s the idea. You know people think that the fitness in the other sports will somehow vapourize. The reality is that if a decent base has been established and you do that sport 1 - 3 times over a 2 week period while you focus on one or two of the sports, very little real fitness will be lost.
the beauty of a good base is that while it takes a long time to build, it takes twice as long to lose. 2 years ago I was averaging 80-90 miles a week and running PRs almost ever weekend.
Since then I’ve had a couple of long injury layoffs and life changes that have seriously curtailes my training time…yet with minimal training I am only 15-20 seconds off my 5K best on any given weekend (I wouldn’t want to test this theory over 26.2 though)
Right now my body is cashing checks that I lodged in 2003.
I test that theory every time I head out the door these days. Trained hard for 20 plus years, but now if I get out for a 2 - 3 rides in a week - it’s a good week. Not to brag, but managed to hang with a moderately fast group ride two weeks ago for close to 100K off very little cycling this spring. Nearly killed me, but indicates that there is still aerobic fitness in the bank! Have only been in once in the past 2 weeks - too busy with other stuff.
