Help me with my position (but it's not what you think)

my next job I mean.

disflamer: I’m posting this in an effort to make sure I haven’t missed an angle, an issue. In the end it’s my (family’s) call, but I want to make sure we haven’t brainfarted a crucial issue somewhere. Onwards:

BACKGROUND

I thoroughly enjoy my current job providing composite materials engineering support for the Navy and USMC’s aviation program offices (V-22, JSF, et. al.). My customers like me back. Still, family -extended and immediate- comes first, and the time is “right” for a move back to the homeland (MN/WI). A concerted effort by me, my customers, and even my supervisor(!) to bring the job with me in a telework arrangement fell victim to the philosophical (visceral!) issues with the concept embodied by the final decision authority in our organization. Cue jobsearch, 10yrs after my first and only such previous foray into the market.

I am nearing the end-game now. The flirt-date-meet the parents cycle that is job hunting in 2005 has narrowed the potential suitors to two very worthy yet almost entirely different companies and jobs. I could get a contract to sign from one any day (any second, even), and the other is flying me out to meet’n’greet this Monday. The phone interviews and headhunter feedback on that one lead me to believe I’ll be leaving their facility Monday afternoon with an offer in hand and a very short fuse attached to it. In order then:

PROGRAM MANAGER (PM)

***The Job: ***The Office of Naval Research contracts these guys to provide program management services for their composites-related Manufacturing Technology (MANTECH) programs. Basically, the PM’s are honest brokers between all parties involved when the advancement of the state of the art in composite part fabrication needs a little push. These parties include the raw material suppliers (Cytec, Hexcel), primes/system integrators (Lockheed, Northrop, General Dynamics) and their parts suppliers (Vought, GKN, Harris), and the Navy/USMC program offices (V-22, AAAV, JSF, H-53).

***The $$: ***a 15% boost over current salary

What’s Hot: Slightly sideways and upwards move, career-wise. Many similarities to current job, and even some of the same program office customers. Opportunity (necessity, really) to expand my horizons beyond military aviation and get wet with the Navy’s ship folks and dirty with the USMC’s groundpounders. My very good contacts and relationships in industry at all the levels involved will compare very favorably to that of my coworkers (I’ve had some previous experience dealing with this company in my current job, so I know, OK?). Get to live wherever I want, which means I can set up shop dead-center between the rellies. That happens to be the gorgeous Hudson WI/Red Wing MN area. Wife gets to stay home with the kids (due to salary boost) which we like the idea of. She’s kinda burned out on social work at the moment anyway.

***What’s Not: ***At least 2x the level of business travel I currently deal with, which averages about 1wk/mo. The loss of those spontaneous personal and professional discussions that just happen when you’re walking by your coworker’s & supervisor’s desks. Ability to be a useful part of real-time fire drill datacall responses severely hampered by remote location. The potential (likely!) distractions of working from home with two kids under 5 and a wife who can’t be everywhere at once.

***X-Factors: ***Some understandable unease at high levels in this organization about the telework thing is pushing them towards making it a contract position to start with a rollover to regular employee status at some later date. In the menatime I get to deal with all the self-employment hassles (more taxes, pay for my own benefits) and haggle over the salary plus-up they’d need to offer to compensate for same. Definite “security blanket” factor to doing something much like my current job.

MANUFACTURING ENGINEER (ME)

***The Job: ***A manufacturer needs some help in the finishing area of their composite parts production line. This is the step between bonding/molding and paint. Efficiencies both up- and down-stream are not being fully realized because finishing is their bottleneck. Management has figured out that finishing is in actuality dealing with issues passed along to them from up-stream and wants someone to get in there who can deal with that as well as bring a fresh perspective to the current finishing processes that would be happening even if they had no defects to deal with. It’s one of those process control things, ya dig?

***The $$: ***a 20% decrease from current salary

***What’s Hot: ***Working here would give me the one thing I feel I’ve been lacking to be a truly well-rounded, total package in the realm of composites engineering: shop floor experience and expertise. Been a desk jockey for 10yrs, guys…dealing with problems like this sometimes, but always from afar. Shorts and a T business dress (or so they tell me). Everybody goes for a ride at lunch (and that’s the only hint you get, period). With the addition of me, half the 8-man ME crew would be WSU composites engineering grads…we be a posse! Expansion plans equal career opportunities, much more so than at the PM company. I get to work on stuff that is part of my non-work passion (OK, a second hint, but no more…and I won’t confirm or deny, so don’t ask). Flexible hours. Virtually no travel.

***What’s Not: ***Very sideways and appreciably downwards move careerwise. Locks me into a location that is not ideal (as specified above) but at least gets me into one of the right states. That desk-jockey thing: Joe Hourly in his first day on the job has more knowledge at that level than I do, and this job will require intimate knowledge of that type and mas rapido. Department supervisor has been downplaying this issue, but I’m not buying it just yet. I’m not Mr Materialistic, but that’s a serious salary cut. Even with the quoted average bonus we’re around 13% downwards. Wife “has to” go back to work, tho perhaps not right away, and that means the $ and emotional issues of daycare if/when she does. And finally, I gotta admit I’ll miss some of the travel and the industry contacts & interaction it brings. Supporting, Directing (if only indirectly), and occasionally Managing multimillion (multibillion in the case of JSF) $$ programs is kinda cool. This would be much more narrowly focused.

***X-Factors: ***These guys (and I) still have to pass the smell test, which happens this Monday. The PM guys have already checked this block. Expansion plans could result in an explosion that is either positive or negative in its effects, owing to cyclical nature of the industry…and yet, these guys haven’t ever contracted (that I can tell) even when the biz in general is down. Hmmm.

There you have it. I’ll be working for one of these outfits before the summer. Maybe even before the end of July (in the case of the ME position). On any given day I flipflop between the two, but I do have a feeling which way I’d like to go. I want your opinions, considered or otherwise:

PM or ME?

I’d go PM, it doesn’t seem like you’d gain much (professionally) from the other one, just hands on experience. If you want that, take the PM job and tell 'em you want to spend a week at a factory to get the behind the scenes look.

ME

disclaimer, I did not read your LOOOOOONG post.

If you’re going to Minneapolis, ME…there are a ton of med device companies needed manufacturing engineers right now…

Carl-

Overall, I’d have to go PM. But you definitely raise valid points. Right now my husband is gone about 2wks per month and I’ll tell you, the resentment builds. If you have this much travel, make sure wife understands and agrees that this is the price she has to pay for being able to stay home with the kids. That seems reasonable, but good to get agreement on it up front. We didn’t, and are still working on correcting it in-proces. Second, because of daycare issues, I worked from home last summer. It was very difficult. My son and his buddies would come in yelling and screaming as I was in the middle of a teleconference. we had daily conversations about it, but he’s a kid. Get yourself a work space away from the noise and commotion. Lack of contact with colleague is also huge. Are there other in your position, who you’ll be compared against. If so, you’ll have to work twice as hard, not just to do your job, but to be as connected as the person down the hall. If you are confident in your ability, don’t worry about the contract. If you’re good they won’t want to let you go. Just make sure to keep your intent to become un-contracted front and center with your supervisor so itdoesn’t become a permanent contract position.

The ME job seems like a dead end. Why go sideways or even backwards when you can be going up? When I iinterview I always wonder about employees whose development plans seem scattered. It is a red-flag to me that they don’t know what they want and set a path toward it. I look for people who are go-getters. The money is a huge cut and may cause marital strife. On the flip side, if my hubby took a job earning more money, part of the reason being that I could stay home, I would think “what a man!”

bump (sorry)

OK, some legitimate content:

Chunky and neo: thanks

Smitty: saw that (on Monster and Careerbuilder) but not my bag. the positions I described are all I’m comparing right now. PM would have me near Hudson, ME near Madison.

kitty: good stuff, thanks! my wife has expressed some of the same sentiments, and we’ve definitely had the travel & kids discussion(s) already. she actually surprised me early on with the idea that she’d rather stay home than go find a job right away.

ME. I took a plunge like this 8 years ago. Took an even bigger paycut than you will. It has took me 5 years to get back to my original salary and throw in some cost of living stuff and I am just barely back there now. I wasn’t married so you certainly have other factors.

The plus side is that I love doing “real” engineering work. Even though there is still paperwork and other BS this is what I truly enjoy doing. IMHO the PM job would not provide the satisfaction the the ME job would. Nothing like looking at something at the end of the day and truly thinking “I made that”

I also enjoy the 7:30-5:30 (my companies version of 9-5) a lot more than the travel for 2 weeks straight take a week off lifestyle. It works a lot better for training and leading a well balanced life.

Carl,

I recruit within the aerospace industry and if you want to PM me the company info I can probably give you some insight into their financial health as well as if I have spoken with anyone out of there recently who has shed some light on the “insiders view”

Let me know if I can help.

Captdav1

I’d go with PM. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow. Work your ass off, make scads of $$ and save/pay down your house as much as you can. Then take it “easier” by moving into Job X that you might enjoy more but can afford because your financial situation allows you to do it.

Going thru the same situation right now. :wink:

more followups:

mj: true dat. all of it.

Captdav1: thx for the offer. in a way I have some insider info of my own on the PM job and I’m reasonably secure about their security.

AndyPants: a perspective I’ve heard from someone offline, too.

now for some info that I maybe should’ve added to the original post (as if it weren’t long enough), X-Factor-ish in nature, because it may shed more light on things…or maybe it means nothing:

PM: being an hour behind the corporate office and 2hrs ahead of my west coast customers kinda extends my effective workday. the former have a reasonable expectation of being able to catch me at my desk during their hours, so at the very least I lose an hour of “me time” at the crack of dawn. also, the majority of that 2x (or more) travel increase is comprised of their expectation that I spend a week a month in the corporate digs out east. this, after a month-long gig in the same place right after I start for some indoctrination and team-building. interestingly enough, the wife is good with all of it. well, she used to be…over dinner last night she reversed course on the grounds that when the kids hit school (they’re 3 & 4) she’d rather not be faced with random periods of flying solo when homework and conferences start coming our way.

ME: yeah, it’s a bike company. one that doesn’t get a lot of love on the board here and I didn’t want to get nastygrams based on the name. also, where the $ delta is concerned (quality of life, wife working, daycare etc), we do have a safety net of sorts which is the 6-figure proceeds from selling our house in MD - one of those hot locations right now. whether it’s plowed into the next house, other more liquid investments, some combination of both, we can use it to our near- (and hopefully short-) term advantage if need be.

thanks again to all, and I’ll keep you posted. whether you care or not :slight_smile:

another update:

PM folks called last night to say they would dispense with the contractor BS and hire direct. agreed to my salary SWAG, too. stock up, baby! fedex with official offer to arrive next week shortly after I get back from seeing the ME folks.

maybe there’s a slowtwitcher in the PM office…