Okay, so I know this is pretty slow by slowtwitch standards, but whatever. I’m late 40s, adult onset runner and tri participant, been running for about five years and doing tris for four. My current 5K PR is 22:10 and I’m in about that shape right now (recent 1:17 flat 10 miler and recent 22:30 5K on a very windy day and a big hill on the course). I want to go sub 20, ideally by Thanksgiving for a Turkey Trot 5K. I know that’s a big time drop and don’t know if it’s realistic in six months, but want to try. One piece of low hanging fruit is weight. I’m 5’11" and 180. I can definitely lose 10 pounds (and I know I could theoretically lose more but want to be realistic here; I’m pretty broad shouldered and 170 is pretty lean for me. I’m sure I could get to 160 but I would be a miserable person). Current mileage is about 30/week. I seem to always get injured when I push over 35/week, even when I approach increases very slowly. I’m willing to drop tri training and focus solely on running for this period. Any thoughts/advice?
How hard are your 30mpw? And how many runs are you doing? 30 over 3 runs is not good. 30 over 6 runs is good.
How hard are your 30mpw? And how many runs are you doing? 30 over 3 runs is not good. 30 over 6 runs is good.
Average week is 5 runs, distributed something like 3 easy/easyish 4-6 miles, one hard 5 or 6 miler (either tempo or 1k repeats or something like that), one longer 8-10 miler.
Lose a little weight, that will help some.
More mileage will too, but be smart about it if you are injury prone. (I thought I was too, but smarter timing of runs and better recovery let me add mileage I didn’t think I could last year)
Possibly learn to suffer more on race day.
How hard are your 30mpw? And how many runs are you doing? 30 over 3 runs is not good. 30 over 6 runs is good.
Average week is 5 runs, distributed something like 3 easy/easyish 4-6 miles, one hard 5 or 6 miler (either tempo or 1k repeats or something like that), one longer 8-10 miler.
Add another easy 5-6 miler…
I did consistent BarryP for about 6 months at around 20 mpw and I finally got down to 20:05… (I was like 5 seconds over but whatever I can break it next race 
)
2 best things I did was to stay healthy (aka listen to the BarryP) and learn to donkey punch myself harder in the actual race. 5k is so short, why hold back so much?
Sorry, you need to lose weight. Made a big difference in my speed when I got to 160 at 6’5". Physics is physics, most of the time.
Will be trying to push my 2 grandkids in a double stroller again at a 5K turkey trot under 20, assuming I have no darn head wind.
I have never run over 30 miles a week, period.
Get in hills in your runs. Get in a lot of swimminng. Do NOT get hurt!! Consistency is key.
The simple answer is that you need to figure out how to run more without getting injured. Losing weight should help. Running more often should help.
How hard are your 30mpw? And how many runs are you doing? 30 over 3 runs is not good. 30 over 6 runs is good.
Average week is 5 runs, distributed something like 3 easy/easyish 4-6 miles, one hard 5 or 6 miler (either tempo or 1k repeats or something like that), one longer 8-10 miler.
What worked for me when I broke 20 minutes in a 5k was to run 5 or 6 days a week. All were fairly fast relative to the 20 minute 5k goal and none were very long. (total mileage averaged well under 20 per week)
I also rode my bike a lot.
Lose a few pounds would not hurt.
Finding a flat course will also help.
I think you got your information mixed up. If you can run a 1:07 10 mile, sub 20 on a 5k is a walk in the park. McMillan says a 19:18 is a 5k goal pace. So, you got it. I mean 6:42 for ten miles? That is solid. You only need a 6:26 average to dip under 20 in the 5k. Not to mention your 5k pr is significantly slower than your 10 mile at 7:08 per mile.
I think you got your information mixed up. If you can run a 1:07 10 mile, sub 20 on a 5k is a walk in the park. McMillan says a 19:18 is a 5k goal pace. So, you got it. I mean 6:42 for ten miles? That is solid. You only need a 6:26 average to dip under 20 in the 5k. Not to mention your 5k pr is significantly slower than your 10 mile at 7:08 per mile.
Sorry, typo. 1:17, not 1:07.
IMO you don’t necessarily need more mileage/time but you do need more structured training. You should do at least one interval workout per week, and your “easy” runs should mostly be more “medium” (maybe they already are?), and at least once per week you should do a longer run at a constant pace that feels easy at first but feels hard at the end. That and lose weight and you should see some big improvements.
I’ve been running much more consistantly this year, but it hasn’t made me a ton faster. I run pain-free for the most part, and I haven’t suffered any injury this year aside from a couple of bruised toenails. For me that alone is huge. But it hasn’t made me a lot faster.
Are you doing any drills? Hills? Strides?
I was in a similar position a few years ago (slightly younger, am 45 now). Echoing what others have said, lose some weight, run every day, experiment with mileage (although this isn’t as critical in my view, 30mpw is ok - running frequency is much more important).
The one thing I would add, which certainly did it for me, is to get used to running at that pace - roughly 6:25 per mile. Once a week, start out with, say, 300 meters (or one minute running) at that pace, recovery as needed. Then increase it to 400 (or say 90 secs). Eventually, as you get close to the event your goal is to do a set like 12x400 at 1:35, 90 secs. rest. Or do 3 mile repeats at 6:25, 5 minutes rest in between. The point is to teach your body what running at that pace feels like and progressively extend the level of effort.
One word of caution, running by time every week is a recipe for burnout at our age. Once you know what the pace feels like, run by effort - for example, 1 min. on/off x 10 (and build to 20) and every so often do a timed workout (on the track or measured distance) to see how you’re progressing. In the final lead up to the event, you’ll definitely want to do more timed workouts to reinforce the pace.
In case you haven’t seen it, here is a very good article: Solving the 5K Puzzle: http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/solving-5k-puzzle?page=single
IMO you don’t necessarily need more mileage/time but you do need more structured training. You should do at least one interval workout per week, and your “easy” runs should mostly be more “medium” (maybe they already are?), and at least once per week you should do a longer run at a constant pace that feels easy at first but feels hard at the end. That and lose weight and you should see some big improvements.
Have to agree
For me I ran sub 20 5km w/2 runs per week. 1x6k track workout, and 1x90min easier run @ 5’9 165lb
…I’m 5’11" and 180. I can definitely lose 10 pounds (and I know I could theoretically lose more but want to be realistic here; I’m pretty broad shouldered and 170 is pretty lean for me. I’m sure I could get to 160 but I would be a miserable person). …
Lose weight, shoot for 160. You will be far from *miserable *when you’re posting better times with a leaner, meaner, more efficient body!
Totally makes sense now.
Count on the others for training advice. My only advice is to try a few races. When you are at the start line, hope to find a gorgeous lady planning to run a 19:45 or so. Chase after her like your life depends on it. You will have your sub 20 by the end of the summer.
I’m also injury prone, but 3 things have helped me stay healthy and push the intensity. Losing weight…buying hoka’s, and probably most important, 90% of my running on treadmill or track. Nice soft surface, great for form focus, also include a lot of hill work on treadmill.
I’m not too different; late 40’s, 6’1", about 180. I also have the same issues with injury, and my weekly current mileage is 15-20 per week (5 miles x 3 or x 4). In the past when I’ve given up swim/bike training (and increased run mileage) I generally just got hurt. So - I rely on cycling & swimming for a lot of my “systems” work. It took me weeks to get to 5 miles per run, increasing run distance by 0.1 miles per workout from a 2 mile starting point last fall. Plus if I can avoid it at all, I don’t run on pavement or concrete.
For me it’s all about pacing using interval work. There’s a flat cinder trail that I run on that has posts every quarter mile. I know that a 6:20 mile is a 95-second quarter. Once a week or so, I’ll do a run where I try to maintain those 95-second quarters for as long as I can. If they get to be too much (I get sloppy form) then I’ll slow down for a quarter and restart. The goal is just to improve the number in the string till I get to 12. If you’re just starting out with them, I’d start with (4) of them in a given workout with breaks between each one and see how it goes. If you haven’t run that fast before, you might not feel fabulous the next day. Then build from there as the hardware permits.
For the injury prone, are you strength training?
Everyone, thanks for all the good advice (only some of which is inconsistent…but when do we not all have different things that work). Let me summarize and ask a few questions as follow up:
Lose weight (and more weight): Got it, understood, in process.
Run more, but carefully: Understood. Will up from 5 to 6 runs per week, starting at same mileage/more frequency and try to add just a mile total per week, with a fair bit on treadmill/track for softness.
Learn to suffer more on race day: Great idea. I always think I’m doing my best, but how do I know really. What would you suggest…just run one at a pace I don’t think I can handle and see if I blow? Sounds like a fun way to try something new.
Add hills: Hard to do where I live but can certainly do them on the treadmill. Question is how this meshes with the concept of doing hard runs hard and easy runs easy? Obviously I can do hard hill workouts. H2O are you suggesting adding hills to the easy runs also? Does that make them too hard/make recovery hard? Or are you not a proponent of easy runs? Like the idea, just don’t want to overdo.
Swimming: Is this just for cardio/systems training without the muscular pounding of running?
Look for flat course for the goal race: Love it, LOL. This one I had figured out on my own.
Run easy runs medium not easy: Really?, this seems counter to what lots of people recommend.
Intervals/Race Pace work: I really like the idea of doing goal race pace starting with short length and increasing length/decreasing rest. Since I’m about 43 seconds of pace from goal pace, I’m thinking I should set a three month goal of sub 21, work these goal pace interval workouts at THAT pace for now, then when I hit that knock it down to sub 20 pace for the next three months. That seems more manageable right now, when 6:26 pace seems very intimidating and I couldn’t do many reps without a ton of rest. Thoughts on that?