A friend of mine has been trying to crack the 4 hour marathon goal. It may not be a big deal for many of the fast slowtwitchers but it has been a challenge for my friend. What I am hoping for is advice for restructuring his training.
First some background information.
Male, age 54, 6’ and 185 lbs
Recent 10K PR of 47:00 (from 2008)
1/2 Mary PR of 1:41:30 from 2008
Has completed 7 marathons - fastest was 4:20 marathon info - had problems with leg cramps beginning at 15, 18, 20, 22 miles in various
marathon events; athletic background - half miler in high school, OK swimmer in HS
We set up a twenty week training plan that included
10 long runs of 3 to 4 hours at 10:00 - 12:00 pace
3 weeks of more than 40 mpw
1x week - 10 mile run at 9:00 pace
1x week - 1 mile or 2 mile repeats for 6 - 10 miles
a half marathon 5 weeks out
a 3 week taper cutting distances in half with no long runs
during taper increased run frequency to 4x week
cross training - 2x week weightlifting cut to 1x week plus 1x week swim
Marathon Performance
Mile 1 - 9:00
Mile 5 - 45:00 - 4 more at 9:00 pace
Mile 10 - 1:30:30 - last 5 at 9:06 pace - still under 9:09 4 hr
marathon pace Halfway - 1:55:00 - a 5K in 25:30, 8:12 pace - way too
fast!??
Mile 15 - Quads start to complain
Mile 18 - Serious cramping - quads, calfs, groins
Mile 20 - Unknown
End - 4:38:35 - last half marathon at 12:20 pace
Was this more than a pacing problem? A nutrition/hydration problem?
By the way, he ran the race at 180 but refused to try to drop more weight. As it was, he said he didn’t want to have to ask for help putting bags in the overhead bin.
Right now, my friend is focusing on 10Ks. I am trying to convince him to add some cycling and triathlons to his training. I think that long bike rides will allow him to add fitness without the pounding of running. He
thinks cycling is too complicated.
I know this is long. Thanks for your patience and comments. There are really three issues.
Comments on what happened in the marathon as detailed above.
what’d he eat during the marathons? cramping usually comes from lack of nutrition- or too much nutrition. all depends on the situation.
Personally, i sweat out too much beyond the 15-20mi mark- even taking in gels every 30-40min, and taking in 40oz+ gatorade and additional water, I still end up having nearly unavoidable cramps. seems tough for me to take in as much as I’m losing.
Ive recently added saltstick capsules to my normal intake. hopefully that can hold it off as much as i need.
He is definitely limited by muscular endurance (He also may have electrolyte problems, and he could back off on the weights). He would need to increase his mileage, and possibly increase the number of running days (if his body can take it). Biking could really help him by
1.) Increasing quad strength
2.) Developing muscular endurance in legs, in lieu of extra run sessions
3.) Allowing him to work on nutrition/hydration issues during long rides
Triathlon seems like it would be perfect for him, but he may be emotionally tied to the sports that he did when he was younger, and be unwilling to branch out. I came from a running background, and it took a little while until I fully embraced cycling.
(Personal testimonial, I am training for a marathon, and had several nagging calf/hamstring issues which severely limited my running miles and running intensity. In the past month I just gave up shuffling along six times a week, ran 3 to 4 times/week, but started pounding the hills on my bike. This allowed my injuries to heal, got my cardiovascular system in shape, and I actually got some running speed. We’ll see how it pans out in 2 weeks!)
Is it reasonable to ask him to lose a bit of weight? This would not only help him in the marathon, but lower impact forces while training. 6’/185 lbs isn’t exactly ideal running build, and at 54, his joints aren’t likely to appreciate.
I’d personally like to see him running more often–daily. Even if it’s only 20’.
My recommendation is to make every run count. Regular runs of 16 - 20 miles. Getting close to the marathon have a few 18 - 20 milers under your belt. If he is struggling with long runs then alternate so they are every other week. I also find having a 2nd semi long run per week also helps, say in 12 - 14 mile range. On from that one of the most important is the tempo run say 10 -12 miles. I would also lose the weights 3 - 4 weeks out from the race. IMO speed work to run 4 hrs isn’t that important and just leaves him more prone to injury, the tempo is far more important. Also just throw an easy run in there so he can chat to his training partner say 6 - 8 miles.
Obviously he might need to build up to these, so very imprtant he doesn’t try to increase mileage too fast or he will get injured. I’m sure there is a lot of different advice, just the way I would plan it.
He’s reasonably lean and strong at 185-190. I suggested that dropping down to 170 and cutting out the weightlifting for a few months was a reasonable thing to do if he really and truly wanted to break 4. His compromise was to drop to 180 and cut back to lifting only once a week. It turns out that he doesn’t want to look like a marathon runner and really likes his weightlifting. If he makes another go at it, I think he’d be willing to drop down to 175.
Based on the 10-12min long run pace, I’m guessing that was some sort of run/walk. Did your friend use this strategy during the race?
This long run pace was well off what he wanted to run. For my first (and only) marathon my goal was about 0:30/km faster than my long run pace…and I ended up finishing very close to my long run pace! Since then I’ve upped my long run pace and decreased the duration with good results at half and HIM.
I’d also question the frequency- looks like he was running 3x week. The 10 miler is a good one, but I wonder if that might be a bit of an “in between” distance for this fellow: too far to run at race pace, but too short for a long run. Maybe 2x10k @ 9:00 pace would have been better?
My experience (and it is limited and perhaps only relevant to me, a 27yo), forget the 10 long runs for now. Focus on building weekly running mileage and frequency. For me this was best accomplished switching to a low intensity plan (almost all runs at 70%) then increasing mileage by roughly 10% (if my body could handle it) every three weeks with a fourth cutback week. I hit a point where I simply did 6x10mi runs. I think this was the best plan for me, just get your body used to running then worry about long runs and other marathon specific things. Also, I would not increase frequency during the taper. Increase intensity, but not volume or frequency. Just my thoughts.
He needs to run more miles per week, more times per week. That is very clear. He also does not need nearly that many long runs of that duration. What builds endurance and makes you faster at the marathon is total consistent weekly volume, not low mileage peppered with insanely long runs.
For the next 20 week program, make sure he gets his weekly mileage up over 50 for at least 6 of those weeks. Preferrably all of those weeks should be from week 8 to week 17. Every 3rd or 4th week should be a cutback week in which he reduces volume.
Have him run at least 4 and preferably 5 times per week. One of those weeks he should run 6 times, perhaps in the peak mileage week. That peak mileage week should be near 60 if possible.
Once you get past week 5, at least once a week he should practice his marathon goal pace. A four-hour marathon is 9:09 pace. I would have him practice 9 minutes per mile, just for simplicity. It’s close enough. He should do at least contiguous miles per week at this pace. By week 16-17 he should be able to do 10 miles at this pace. In fact, I recommend doing a half marathon anywhere from 5 to 3 weeks out and trying to run it at goal marathon pace.
All of this presumes he can do it without getting injured. Avoiding injury supersedes all of this. It feeds into the whole consistency thing. You need to be hyper-vigilant about monitoring yourself for new aches and pains when building mileage to new levels. Be sure that easy runs are easy.
Run 50+ miles/week 10 of the last 12 weeks before the marathon taper.
Thats up to him.
I’ll put $100 that if he does 2) above, he’ll break 4 hours easy.
He started failing at 15 miles so his breakfast didn’t kill him. He started failing at about 2:15 so it wasn’t calories/nutrition…its simply that he didn’t run enough. He doesn’t need special long runs or special intervals or special anything (though a good balance will help) - he just needs to run a lot more. He probably averaged ? 30 miles/week for the 3 months before the race?
I’m sure the 3 miles at 8:12 pace didn’t help :). You should wait until mile 18 or so to start picking it up…if you feel great…