I am looking at getting some race wheels and hve good things about the Hed3’s and the Zipp 404’s. I am not interested in running a disk. I ride a P2K and am 5 10 and aroung 180 pounds. Are the Hed3’s only good on the flats? I am training for the 1/2 Ironman in Kona come may. Are the Hed3’s strong enough to train on if one buys the clincher’s? Any input would be appreciated…
I was thinking the same thing. If I could only have one front race wheel, it wouldn’t be a Hed 3. (Though I’d love to have that wheel.) I would still choose a smaller cross section wheel like my Nimble Fly or a 303, but given the choice between a 404 and the Hed 3, I’d go with the 404. Now if I could only get one rear race wheel and a disc were out of the question, then the 3 would be at or very close to the top of my list. The only drawback I see to mixing them up is that sometimes you can get a bit of a discount for buying the matched set. Not sure it will matter in this case though.
If you are not interested in a disc (more on that in a moment), then I would recommend a Hed3 rear or Nimble Crosswind rear and a Nimble Fly in the front.
Contrary to popular belief, the front wheel is where handling problems can come into play. The deeper the rim, the more aero you are but have less control. I have run many wheels in many races, and I have found that the disc doesn’t make any factor in 9 out of ten races with cross wind. But the deeper or more surface area (counting in the tri spoke type wheels) my front wheel is, the more wind-related handling problems I have had. I have run a disc and my old stand-by Sun Mistral 19mm deep rim (16 spokes) in a windy race and had minimal handling problems. But my Lew Sydney (a moderate 40mm deep) had made my life hell in a moderately windy race. And a trispoke (Zipp 3000) made it even worse.
So, to give you my real recommendation, a pair of Nimble Flys and a Renn disc for the unwindy days. And you will have an all-conditions wheelset for less than $1200.
go with a hed 3 in front and the zipp in the rear. that would probably be more areo than zipp/hed combo. I’ve ridden in near hurricane conditions with front rear trispokes before and other than leaning 20deg no real problems.
I rode the H3’s front and rear for years with no problems. Then this year at the Buffalo Springs 1/2IM on one of the descents at 40+MPH I got hit with a crosswind that very nearly sent me off the road and down a large embankment. When my heart restarted I took it easier on the downhills but still had a few tense moments and I weigh 175. I just switched to a Zipp front to help that problem. Go to www.analyticcycling.com and run a force on cyclist model with both combo’s. The difference was very minor.
I too have been anguishing over the Zipp vs Hed D3 choice for my 650 P2K (I’m 5’8"/157lbs). One day I’m ready to order the lighter and more versatile 404’s and then the next I’m favoring the more aero and less expensive Hed’s. A third choice may be the Hed Alps for the front with the tri-spoke in the rear. Is this not the combo Tim DeBoom ran last October in Kona? I just haven’t seen much feedback on the tubular Alps in this Forum but they do seem to be a close match to the 404’s but a little less coin. My local conditions (Central Oregon) have a mix of hill climbs and fast downhills but it can also be very windy earlier in the season.
Yes, these wheels are strong enough to ride every day, clincher or tubular. I have Zipp404 clinchers that I ride full time and have never had a problem even after a crash that schredded the tire. I used to ride with a roadie group where several riders rode 303 tubulars all the time with no problem.
Have no fear! You can use your wheels and they won’t fall apart!
i’m 6’1", weight 165.
i just put H3 on front with Hed Alpine on the rear of my Kestrel 200. I’ll likely use the same setup on my tri-bike, a C’dale, for racing. no problems so far.
sv-
I bought Hed3s and today was the first ride on them. I plan on racing them at the Big Kahuna, so this was a get acquainted ride. I live on the coast and rode them in the afternoon 8-12mph crosswinds we almost always have at that time.
They rode just fine in the crosswind. There were times I would have to adjust my listing into the wind,most often when a car would pass and release the wind, but nothing major. I had a Zipp 404 front with a HED deep rear that seemed to be more prone to the wind.
They are pretty amazing wheels. It almost felt as if I was drafting. You know that feeling of not having to work? Just like that. Also, I don’t know what point it was at because I don’t have my magnet on the wheel yet, but I would hit a certain speed and they really made the work seem effortless.
I think either way you will be happy, but I would save the coin and use it for race entries to use your new HED3s.
There is one piece of advice that I will offer up. Don’t ride with no hands with either of these wheels unless you’re on a trainer!!
Brian
I’m 5-7 138 lbs and ride a P2K with Zipp 404 tubular wheels. I love them to death. Never had a problem with them at all since day one and climbed very well during a race out here with 2 5k climbs. I never rode any Hed3s so I can’t voice my opinion on them. =)
“I’m 5-7 138 lbs”
You may want to rethink that screen name of yours. 
pedalincoastal,
Did you buy the tubular’s? Or the clincher’s? I know everyone is high on tubulars for racing, however I am thinking about going with the clinchers to train and race on.
Thanks…
I am more comfortable with clincher’s, although people seem to try to sway me to tubular’s for saftey, and high speed flats. Are the tubular’s truely a safer way to go? If not I would prefer to stay with clincher’s.
Thanks…
I use tubulars 100% of the time because I like the sweet ride (and how much farther they shoot rocks compared to clinchers). For road racing, especially in bad conditions, I would always use tubulars. But in a tri I really can’t come up with a rational reason for tubulars. The courses are not technical so the lower rolling resistance for clinchers trumps any tubular advantages. (With Crank bros. speed levers and a little practice you can change a tube about as fast as a tubular).
I am not sure I would say tubulars are safer than clinchers. They have different failure modes, but in a tire any failure can be dangerous depending on the situation so it’s more a matter of pick your poison.
So Felix,
Do you train and race on clincher’s?****
.