Funny you should mention the 808’s. I was watching the bike dismount at IMWI and seemed like everyone had 808 wheels this year. They certainly have become the darling wheelset of the trathlon world- at least for teh front of the pack at this race.
I vote for the HED’s 
Yeah, even Dev could ride fast on the HEDs so they must be good wheels;).
And Sergio, I’d swear that every time you post a pic of your kid, he’s significantly bigger!
Big enough now for me to ride his bike. If he keeps growing like that his 54 Soloist will be mine in less than a year 
Sergio
You heard it here from the others. With the Zipps, you are paying for: lighter weight (important to some - expensive at the high end) and probably better hubs (I think so in my own personal experience with owning Hed wheels vs. Zipps). Are the Zipps better - sure, for either the weight reduction or the hub quality alone. Are they $600 better? I doubt it, but a lot of people sure think so (and marketing has a lot to do with that).
Yes, 404’s and Hed 60’s are basically the same rim depth.
That whole water thing is the one and only reason I’d avoid the Jets. Aerodynamically speaking, there right on par with the Stinger offering. But after racing at Wisco this past weekend, I can’t imagine having done that race with Jets. By the end, it would have been like trying to push two concrete blocks around.
Of course, I’ve never owned Jets so I’ve just heard of the water thing second hand. Is there anyone out there that has experience with this and can comment if water is, indeed a problem? If the carbon are just fairings, I’m surprised they don’t have little “outlet” holes near the rim where water can kind of get flushed back out while the wheel is spinning.
Looking at the Zipp and Hed websites the 606 wheelset would be about 200g lighter than the Hed wheelset. I don’t think that 200g spread over a front and rear wheel would be significant enough for anyone on this forum to notice. The rim profiles are similar and the depths are pretty much the same so $600 for a slightly lighter wheel with dimples sure doesn’t seem like money well spent but to each their own.
On another note, I had a Jet front wheel for 8 seasons and did a number of races in the rain and never had any problems with water getting in the rim. If I decide to go with clincher race wheels next year, I’ll likely be riding a H3 or Jet 60 up front. The only reason I’m not riding my old Jet anymore is that I switched from 650 to 700 wheels.
I thought about the weight difference as well, but you do have to remember that you are getting another 1.2 cm of carbon on the Stingers. The front is 60 versus 58 and the rear is a 90 versus 80. Seems like a better earo advantage from the little I know. Aren’t deepere wheels more aero?
I would think that the deeper would be better in this case since they are such similar wheels (and isn’t that why Planet-x and Blackwell went with 100+ deep wheels). If you check the Hed website the trispoke has better drag numbers than the Stinger 90. In fact, the Jet 90 has drag numbers that are posted that are a very small amount better than the stinger 90 … interesting since it doesn’t have the bulging side shape that is supposed to help.
I’ve spent some time studying the 90 and the Hed3. Even talked to the folks at Hed in person. They are really close in terms of drag, but the Hed 3 gets really better the more the wind blows. At least that is the way I uderstand it. In other words it has to be really windy for the Hed3 to beat out the 90 Stinger. I might be wrong though and have even considered a Hed3 rear/ Hed Alps front set up for exactly this reason. I don’t know. shrug
What you are saying is exactly why spending $600 more for Zipps is not worth it IMO. I doubt that if I put Zipp 404s, 606s, H3s, Stinger or Jets on my bike that there would be much more than a few seconds difference in my overall bike split at any race. They all do a good job and your best bet is to get whatever looks coolest with your bike with whatever your spouse will tolerate you spending
That is the most sound reasoning I’ve heard so far :).
The trispoke only really bests the 90 in wind angles greater than say 13 degrees or so. Which doesn’t seem like a lot but others like Ashburn have hinted that to get wind speeds high enough for you to exceed 13 degrees will be a very windy day.
It only takes a 4.6 MPH cross wind for a rider moving at 20 MPH to get to that 13 degrees, but I guess 4.6 MPH at wheel level is more like 10+ MPH when reported by the weather stations. I tried finding more information about wind speed 1-2 feet off the ground vs. 4-5 feet off the ground, but didn’t have much luck.
Like you said, though. I think all the wheels are fast wheels. I feel the pain though. I really wanted a 60/90 set, but have always liked the tri spoke design as well. I’ve now got a pair of each sitting in my basement and feel stupid for having two sets since I can only ride one at a time.
Do you realize how strong the wind would have to be in order to get ~5mph of pure crosswind at ground level? That would require a reported wind speed of about 20mph. And then you would have to have the rare condition where it is a DIRECT 90* crosswind. So 13deg of yaw is not nearly as easily to find as you might think. 5-10 deg of yaw are probably the most common.
So then assuming (according to Hed) that the Stinger 90 is better than the Hed 3 until about 12.5 degrees or so that would make it a better all around wheel for the majority of the time, correct?
That’s the sort of data that I was trying to find out. I know that wind speed at ground/wheel level is less than reported wind speed at weather stations, etc. But I wasn’t sure to what degree. 1/2 the speed? 1/4 the speed? Obviously, the higher you go, the higher the wind speed. Where did you come up with ~5 MPH at ground = 20 MPH reported?
Not that I don’t believe your numbers. I just couldn’t google any useful information about ground wind speed vs. reported wind speed. I just got a bunch of random crap about aerodynamics and planes and stuff.
I tend to think that deep spoked wheels are better than composite wheels for a number of reasons, besides just the wind-angle data. You also do not get the pressure pulses with a spoked wheel that a composite wheel generates.
5mph ~ 20mph comes from some data that I believe Andrew Coggan posted here, from some testing he did with his pocket windmeter (anemometer). You can buy one for about $200 and test yourself. I imagine it depends a lot on terrain, topography, etc. If you are in a valley, that could be very different than being close to the ground on a hill. So while my numbers are obviously not hard and fast. Just rough based on what I’ve seen. More than anything, I’ve seen a fair bit of info on 5-10deg of yaw being most common.
Thanks.
The deep spoked handling was what caused me to get Stingers over the H3s in the first place. I remember riding my 909 set vs. a pair of H3s on my 650c P3 and the H3 was way twitchier in the front. Although my dual H3 setup on my 700c bike is totally stable. I don’t know if it’s wheel size, the type of fork I’m using now or what? Maybe I’m just a better bike handler than a few years ago. shrug
Interesting info about the anemometer. I never knew such a device existed. I’ll have to go back and search for Coggan here and see what I can’t find. Thanks for the hints on where to look.