I’m about to order a set of Jet 9’s for my Speedmax from Mybikeshop but not sure if I should go with the standard or stallion build. I weigh anywhere from
190 at the beginning of the season and closer to 180 toward the end. I typically average wattages in the low to mid 300’s during TT’s. I’ve contacted HED and they said to go with the stallion build whereas Mybikeshop said the regular build would be more than sufficient with a body weight under 215. Just trying to get some recommendations from folks here that have experience with the wheels and what you would recommend based on that.
I read somewhere, and it could have been joshatsilca, that the aero and weight penalty of a stallion build is so small that it is. It worth it to build light. But, the wheel makers believe they need to offer light builds to stay competitive. So, if there is any doubt, and the wheel maker recommends stallion, then I would go with the stallion build.
I’m 190-200 and have always used regular build HED wheels (but gone with Clydesdale for Flo because their weigh limit is lower). No issues with either. At your weight, I really don’t think you need to be contemplating the Stallion build, although I guess it is a bit concerning that the manufacturer would advise the Stalion build even know it’s advertises that a rider up to 225 can ride its regular build. I mean you are 35-45 pounds under that limit. If they are advertising 225 on the website, I can only assume that means it can probably hold a ride at least 235 just to give it some wiggle room. Did HED give a reason to go against the advice from its website?
Even though we list weight limits on the website, people still ask about stallion vs regular. My response is always “if you have to ask”. The reasoning on that response is that if a customer tooked at the website and still took the time to ask then there must be a reason:
Maybe this person has broken a lot of wheels in the past.
Maybe they have a high strength to weight ratio.
Perhaps the local roads are terrible.
Maybe something we have not even thought of.
If you are at or near the weight limit, and you ask - then I am going to recommend a stallion build. The weight difference stallion build vs regular (front and rear) is .07% or less of your total bike and rider weight. Aerodynamically you’re losing a very small amount. On the rear wheel you’re getting a 16% increase in spoke count. It’s going to make your wheel stiffer and more durable.
If you hover around the weight limit, or even if you are 30 lbs over our wheels are not going to crumple underneath you. But the fact that you asked makes me think you are worried about stiffness and/or durability. IF that’s your worry then stallion is your answer.
Thanks for the post Andy. Makes sense and a smart corporate answer. It just seemed odd for someone to advise this rider who is really nowhere near the weight limit to go for the Stallion build. Perhaps he shared other info with HED that he didn’t in his post. But, yes, I understand it’s always safer to suggest the more durable build if the buyer is in doubt.
There’s rarely more info, so we play it safe. The downside to 6 extra spokes is pretty tiny, but the POTENTIAL upside can be big. I get the sense that there’s a lot of overthinking going on for some people. Nevertheless, if you ask…
I say, if you’re only exclusively going to use them for racing then lean toward the regular build. If you’re going to use it as a training wheel, then definitely Stallion build.
I have a Jet 60 C2 that’s like 8 years old, and I didn’t go with Stallion build and after about 4500 miles of outside riding two spokes broke. I was averaging between 185 and 190 lbs then. I had the wheel rebuilt and within a few hundred miles the spokes lost tension again. So, yeah, the wheel is junk now and I wish I got a Stallion build. The front wheel, of course, is still perfect.
Needless to say, I just bought a Jet 60 Black rear two months ago and I went with Stallion Build. And it was no extra cost. (* Double check the carbon fairing, my separated in two spots about 4 inches long and I had to send it back to HED.)
It’s also worth noting Tony Martin, the World Championship Time Trial, used the Stallion build and his weight is well under the Stallion recommendation. He said he liked the stiffness for generating power.
I closed my eyes and picked up a Stallion wheel, and then a regular wheel, I cannot feel the difference in weight.
I suppose. Yet I asked and always landed on the regular build despite being heavier than the Oper. Actually, I seem to recall I may have asked primarily because—and correct if I’m wrong—the suggested weight limit for the wheels changed at some point in their history…???
There’s rarely more info, so we play it safe. The downside to 6 extra spokes is pretty tiny, but the POTENTIAL upside can be big. I get the sense that there’s a lot of overthinking going on for some people. Nevertheless, if you ask…
Andy,
Apparently in my old age, I can no longer find stuff. I suspect I’m missing the obvious, but where are the weight limits for the wheels listed on your site?
you have to go all the way to the individual wheel pages, as if you are going to purchase.
“This wheel is available in either a standard build with 18 front spokes and 24 rear spokes, or a Stallion build with 20 front spokes and 28 rear spokes. The Stallion build is stiffer, and ideal for strong riders or those 225 lbs and above.”
Thanks for the post Andy. Makes sense and a smart corporate answer. It just seemed odd for someone to advise this rider who is really nowhere near the weight limit to go for the Stallion build. Perhaps he shared other info with HED that he didn’t in his post. But, yes, I understand it’s always safer to suggest the more durable build if the buyer is in doubt.
I’m nowhere near the weight limit (typically ~165-170 lbs) and I just had a rear Jet 9 Black built with a PT hub in it earlier this year and I went Stallion build with 28 spokes over the normal 24.
I chose that option for the additional lateral wheel stiffness due to my particular bike and application, which has a chainstay mounted brake. I previously had been running a Jet 6 Black (regular build) in the rear of that bike but would have to run the brake open further than I like to prevent pad rub under power (like climbing). That’s because if you’ve ever seen the shape that a rim takes when loaded from the side (in a FEA plot, or even Damon Rinard’s old wheel stiffness data plots hosted at Sheldon Brown’s) you’ll notice that for a given spoked wheel build, the maximum lateral deflection of the rim occurs ~90 from the point of the force application, and in the opposite direction. Basically, the rim is beginning to take the classic “taco” shape that one sees when a rim is taken to yield failure from side loading like that. On a normal brake placement frame, that’s usually not an issue since the deflection on the opposite side of the rim from the load application is very small. But, that can become an issue with brakes mounted further down in the bike.
Anyway, I found that more spokes helps with that deflection at the 90 degree point…in fact, Andy and I had a brief discussion at NAHBS in March about that. It doesn’t help as much as actual rim stiffness does (and the difference between a Jet 6 and a Jet 9 is fairly small), but every little bit helps.
Thanks for all of the awesome responses! Just to clarify me questioning which build to get - there is a lot of conflicting information regarding these wheels when it comes to weight limits. Even directly from HED I’ve seen 190 as the limit as well as 215 and even 225. That for me was the reason for asking and trying to get clarification. I’ve also never personally run my tires at less than 90psi but HED recommends that as the max pressure. To clarify the matter they did a one page description of the reasoning for it which cleared up the “why†and made perfect sense. Maybe, if HED (Andy) is getting lots of questions regarding builds they should do the same explanation on their site as they did for the psi…
As it stands I’ll use the wheels for both training and racing (TT’s). The roads are decent where I ride and not strewn with potholes. Given that and all the responses I’ve received I’m going to go with the standard build. Thanks to everyone it’s much appreciated!!!
you have to go all the way to the individual wheel pages, as if you are going to purchase.
“This wheel is available in either a standard build with 18 front spokes and 24 rear spokes, or a Stallion build with 20 front spokes and 28 rear spokes. The Stallion build is stiffer, and ideal for strong riders or those 225 lbs and above.”
Thanks, Andy. That’s the way I remember it. The site seems different, now. Some wheels don’t have the option, i.e. the Ardennes LT Plus Rim Brake. Other do have options for spoke count, i.e. the Ardennes BlackRim Brake. I could be missing something, but I don’t see anything about “Clydesdale” anymore. That may be why you’re fielding more questions about spoke count.
I’d go with the Stallion… or rather I did. Weight, aero… almost zero penalty with a bunch of upside IMO. I float from 170-175lbs but have gone through a lot of rear wheels over the years especially… so for me why not?
So far so good, no buyers remorse at all. Best wheels I’ve ever put on my road bike, easily.
I just did my first race on the Jet Black wheelset, 6 on the front, 9 on the back, tubeless with conti 5000 TL’s and mMan do they roll nice !
I ran them at 90 psi, I weigh 157 plus a speed concept. The combination of tires and wheels are noticeably faster to ride. Other than having to go back to regular wheels for training rides I have no complaints.
As it stands I’ll use the wheels for both training and racing (TT’s). The roads are decent where I ride and not strewn with potholes. Given that and all the responses I’ve received I’m going to go with the standard build. Thanks to everyone it’s much appreciated!!!
Chris
The roads here on eastern Long Island are pretty good, too, but after several thousand training miles your back wheel bears the brunt of riding abuse and impact even from small divots on any road. But heck, who knows, even I had a stallion build the wheel could’ve went bust. Good luck with the standard build and hopefully we wont’ be saying “told yah so” in a few years.