Anyone use this wheel yet? HED doesn’t have any aerodata they were willing to release–at least yet-- so I was wondering about anyone’s personal experience with it.
Pretty hard to justify the price for the performance. I had the original H3 for two seasons and other than looking really cool it handled like total crap in heavy winds.
HED rep I spoke to claims this handles wind much better than h3 because it has SCT and also claimed less twitchy than a jet 9 in high winds. Who knows but that is what he claimed.
HED rep I spoke to claims this handles wind much better than h3 because it has SCT and also claimed less twitchy than a jet 9 in high winds. Who knows but that is what he claimed.
I had a 6, 9 and H3 at the same time up front. H3 was by a long long long way the worst on direct cross winds.
That was my understanding and would be consistent with his statements-at least that the H3 didnt perform as well in crosswinds.
I use the original HED 3 front and back no problems at all with handling, just thoughtd id put my different experience to the others.
Me too - both front and back, both on my Softride and my Foil… Just gotta learn how to “sail” 'em!
I have used a H3 and Flo 90 in time trials. I sold the Flo because of how bad I though it handled in crosswinds. I have absolutely no issues with the H3 in the wind.
I wish there were data on the H3+. I did some extrapolation from the HED GT3 thread, but it’s all just conjecture.
my feeling is that the gains in Crr savings from wider tires offsets the aero penalty of wider wheels.
My secret hope is that they used the wider rims to “steer” the air better at zero yaw as well, making it even faster at zero yaw, but this a pipe dream. We also don’t know how it interacts with forks of a bike.
**Re: H3 depth matter like spoked wheels? **In reply to]Edit | Delete | Quote | Reply
I’ve been digging around all day on the deep web for “watts to spin” data.
if you’ll grant me the assumption that the H3 is as fast or faster with a 20mm Conti SS than anything else at zero yaw (source: Tom A.'s blog at Specialized wind tunnel), then this is my hypothesis:
H3 Plus and GT3 are slightly slower than the H3 at zero yaw. This seems intuitive. But all three wheels are good out to 5 degrees of yaw, and the Plus and GT are better at 5-15. OTOH there is reasonable anecdotal evidence that wider can be better if you are using the extra material to steer the air better and reduce Cd (source: Cervelo).
However, given the extra width of the H3 Plus and GT3, there’s a significant Crr savings for the better wider tires available. Again using Tom A.'s Crr charts, you’d be gaining .0005 of Crr for the Conti SS 23mm vs. the Conti SS 20mm. That’s 6 watts at 50kph.
So, HED’s data shows the GT3 is 1 watt slower at zero yaw than the H3 at 50kph, and an additional 1 watt slower than a Zipp/Enve/Hed/Roval spoked deep front wheel
wider wheel: -1 watt
wider tire: +6 watts
watts to spin: +6 watts
so the H3 Plus or GT3 are coming out 11 watts ahead. Even if you up the difference for wider wheels at zero yaw to 1 watt per 2mm width and give it a -4 watts discount, you’re still coming out 7 watts ahead, or about 30" over 40km
hmmm… I’m sure I’m overlooking something, but why else would every Pro Tour team use the H3?
HED rep I spoke to claims this handles wind much better than h3 because it has SCT and also claimed less twitchy than a jet 9 in high winds. Who knows but that is what he claimed.
Thanks. Yeah, I read your postings in the other thread and they are definitely helpful. I was hoping the HED rep would be more helpful, if not with aerodata, then at least other useful information so I can decide which wheel is best for me. But, I left the conversation more confused than I started.
I really am just trying to get at least a general sense of how the H3+ wheel should be “expected” to behave compared to other HED wheels at various yaw angles. I assume–perhaps incorrectly, which is why I am posing these questions–that it is slightly worse then H3 and H3D at 0-5 yaw, then better/the same as those and better than 9+ to maybe 15 degrees yaw, and then better than H3 and H3D but worse than the 9+ past about 15 degrees yaw. Your post is helpful in this regard. I assume most of my racing conditions are probably done at approximately 5-15 degree yaw. And, I have a 6+ as a backup if it is much windier.
I think I ruled out the H3 and H3D, but I am trying to decide between the Jet 9+ and H3+. The Jet 9+ is probably a safer choice for guaranteed solid performance at various yaws, but I’m leaning toward the H3+ if for no other reason than to just try something different, enjoy the wheel and not get too caught up in exact wind tunnel data. But, it comes with a hefty price tag. So, if the tunnel data also supported the H3+, that would be nice!
is it even available right now, or are you just looking for future purchase info.
the ability to use wider tires on the plus may be of benefit for crr as others have said, I am going to guess it does not give up much in aero or power to spin vs the h3
only time I had issues with h3 in cross winds was when descending through areas where you went from deep cuts in the hillside to open valley on windy days. but then I never tried a deep wheel in those conditions either.
I really think that unless you’re talking about a few seconds in the state TT, the HED Jet + 9 is your wheel. You can train with it, you can bike race with it, and you can do 99% of the triathlon wind conditions with it. It’s cheap.
That said, and like you said, spoked wheels can be boring, and the H3+ would be pretty cool!
Thanks. Yeah, I read your postings in the other thread and they are definitely helpful. I was hoping the HED rep would be more helpful, if not with aerodata, then at least other useful information so I can decide which wheel is best for me. But, I left the conversation more confused than I started.
I really am just trying to get at least a general sense of how the H3+ wheel should be “expected” to behave compared to other HED wheels at various yaw angles. I assume–perhaps incorrectly, which is why I am posing these questions–that it is slightly worse then H3 and H3D at 0-5 yaw, then better/the same as those and better than 9+ to maybe 15 degrees yaw, and then better than H3 and H3D but worse than the 9+ past about 15 degrees yaw. Your post is helpful in this regard. I assume most of my racing conditions are probably done at approximately 5-15 degree yaw. And, I have a 6+ as a backup if it is much windier.
I think I ruled out the H3 and H3D, but I am trying to decide between the Jet 9+ and H3+. The Jet 9+ is probably a safer choice for guaranteed solid performance at various yaws, but I’m leaning toward the H3+ if for no other reason than to just try something different, enjoy the wheel and not get too caught up in exact wind tunnel data. But, it comes with a hefty price tag. So, if the tunnel data also supported the H3+, that would be nice!
It is available from HED directly but I think very few, if any, retailers have it yet.
i’ll have to give Tim a jingle
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Anyone use this wheel yet? HED doesn’t have any aerodata they were willing to release–at least yet-- so I was wondering about anyone’s personal experience with it.
I have both HED 3 and HED deep. Big difference. I sold the deep front, it is BRUTAL in crosswinds.
He is the rep I spoke to. Very nice and obviously quite knowledgeable, but in the end, not very helpful in responding to my questions. I realize, in part, my questions may not have clear answers and/or HED can’t yet provide the aerodata they do have, but it still left me a bit frustrated. Please report back after you speak to him to see if you get any other info.
Tim is not going to give out the data you want as it is owned by the team/person that did the testing. The stuff he probably referenced to you.
I do not know what specific test data they have obtained themselves. I wont be getting and presenting any of it here.
I think you are going to have to wait on that for someone like ERO to post data if they get and test one and feeling like posting.
No, I certainly wasn’t asking you to post proprietary data on here…just any additional information about the wheels that he may share.
no additional info on the H3+, but I have seen one up close now and looks pretty sweet. more chances for folks to run 'em backwards as the valve is not in a spoke(so many folks run the regular backward still)
Along those lines what about the PRO (Shimano) 3 spoke? I’ve looked a bit but haven’t found much for data.