i used H3’s for 2 out of about 30 races last year and both times where the slowest of the year.
bad build quality, mainly the hubs, really bad handling and certainly for me slow
Can’t argue with your result being on a set of Hed 3’s, but to say that the wheel made you slower due to the bad hubs, poor build quality and handling, seems a little extreme. Steve Larsen was happy with them at Kona, a heap of top class pros use them, (HED in general) and deliver results and don’t seem to have any issues with the Hubs, CW and Lance don’t seem to have their peformance impacted by the poor Hed Hubs.
I own a set of Zipp 404 and a Jet 60/90 combo and can’t say that I have noticed much if anything regarding the quality of the Hubs. If anything the Jet 90 wheel seems to spin for longer and feels faster and smoother when raced on similiar terrain. For me as an age grouper what’s the real difference probably nothing between them I just like wheels and having the choice, if one set was technically better than the other I know its probably coming down to less than a minute over the course of Olympic distance race probably less.
Zipp have been slammed for years in some prominent cycling magazines for making rubbish hubs and only addressing the issue this year, but nobody seems to concerned because they are pricey and thus they must be good. As I said can’t argue with the results, however without trying to be preachy perhaps racing 30 times a year is less than ideal for peak race performance and could have more of an impact than the wheels which are good enough for some of the greates athelets in the world.
peaking for events, think i may have got that about right as i won all but about 3 of those races setting more than 10 course records
alot of Pro’s ride rubbish kit, looking at what they use is not a good way of choosing what works, they ride what they are paid to ride
Zipp hub have been very bad and everyone talks about it, i still cont work out how Head have avoided getting a bad rep for theres when the rear hub in particular is way worse than a zipp ever was
.
Dev,
I run the H3C’s (tubbies) front and back and find the braking a little squirrelly. (158 pound rider) I usually slap them on
a week before a race just to get used to the handling and braking differences between them and my training wheels. I find
they require a light touch as my rear wheel can lock quite easily. Wet conditions add another parameter and like any other
wheel, I’d ‘feather’ the brakes well before a turn. In the end, they take a bit of getting used to, but none of it is a deal
breaker- at least for me. Ultimately, we are not on the brakes that often anyway. 
It really is a ‘bang for the buck’ setup.
Now if I had the extra coin, the Zipp 808’s with PT would be a very nice choice, though still can’t bring myself to justify
that kind of expenditure.
2 cents deposited,
Darren
If you are winning 27 out of thirty races per year then I guess you do have the peaking thing aal worked out, it did seem like a lot of races, so not knowing anymore I assumed that perhaps it was a bit too much. In your situation top of the pack, pro license holder & winning lots of races you would notice the difference or be imapcted by that 1 % difference in wheel quality that I don’t.
For me the difference between a HED a Zipp and the basic shimano training wheel is huge. I had thought about getting a set of wheels from wheelbuilder.com where you can get your own hubs.
On the peaking thing how do you avoid burning out with all that racing
peaking for events, think i may have got that about right as i won all but about 3 of those races setting more than 10 course records
alot of Pro’s ride rubbish kit, looking at what they use is not a good way of choosing what works, they ride what they are paid to ride
Zipp hub have been very bad and everyone talks about it, i still cont work out how Head have avoided getting a bad rep for theres when the rear hub in particular is way worse than a zipp ever was
W/in your experience, what race wheels do you feel belong in the top end of the range of good, better and best?
Any sort of references (reviews, studies, etc.) that support your own experience would be great, if you can cite them. I’m doing my best to read up on race wheels at the moment.
Darren, agreed on feathering the H3C’s.
Anyway in the context of age group competition, what I lose with my Stinger60+H3C setup (probably 30 seconds over an Ironman), I more than make up with faster transitions than 99.5% of age groupers :-)…it really does crack me up that so many guys get so caught up on which wheel is more aero and which bike is more aero, when combined transition times at Ironmmans are 8-20 minutes…seriously! Most of the guys are missing the low hanging fruit on the cheap and low effort path to faster overall times (no training, no money, just a bit of mental focus needed).
Dev
What races? What course records? It would be great to know so we can put your comment in the appropriate perspective.
I am not paid to ride Hed wheels. I have just had the opportunity to finally race on them and was sharing my experience with the Slowtwitch community. I can say a lot of nice things about other brands as well, but the focus of this review is the Hed 3C, which as noted earlier, I like a lot.
Dario- i tend to go for wheels i know wont break and handle well and ignore test results, Ive used pretty much most wheels out there but at the moment the wheels i take to races are Mavic comete, Xentis TT’s and Xentis HM’s. Comete and TT is fastest, pair of TT’s for hillier events mainly cause it has a bigger cassette on it and the HM’s on days when it seems its all up hill or very techinical. H3’s are hands down the worst handling wheels (front) ive used so while they might be quick in a wind tunnel there usless if you have to back of cause your getting blown around. Zipp 808’s where better handling until the point they broke and also the spokes had a habit of rotating and acting as air brakes, i went from a mavic disc to a zipp and went slower and it felt dead so went back to a mavic which i love although it ways a ton.
TT’s from 10 to 100miles national level
10pb 19.03
25pb 48.48
50pb 1.40
100 cant remember, ive blanked the experience out as it was truly horrible
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You picked a wheel to use because it has a bigger cassette on it?
Steve, I have been thinking about shelling out for a set of Hed3 in clinchers for a while (just don’t like glue), as they do seem to offer pretty good bang for buck. As consumers we are faced with huge amounts of wind tunnel data, marketing hype and then the various opinions out there that range from that wheel is awesome to somebody else thinking its terrible.
The guy who highlighted the transition thing is right on the money, just the same way that my marathon would have been quicker with me not losing a substantial amout of my calories at IM AZ, but race wheels are nice to have and I can afford them, what I can’t justify doing is spending more on my wheels than I did on my bike.
Hed seem to be in a pretty good place when you look at price versus what you get in quality. When I look at the pro athelte thing, I use the following hypothesis, Lance or CW would not use something that gave them a material disadvantage in the race as they want to win. So the chance that the HED wheel quality is of significant disadvantage to them is very low, same as if the Mavic wheel that Bikedoc highlighted were to give them a material advantage, then they would use it.
Now I know that people get paid money to race on certain products, but long term ther is no advantage to using a product that is so poor that you might lose to the other guy on the mavic wheel, thus reducing your winnings and future sponsorship dollars. Thus the thoery that the difference is so small it does not matter.
Now that I’ve got that out of the way, what can you tell me about the Hub used in the Hed3 and handling of the wheel?
Thanks
Bikedoc, it does not look like your a fan of Zipp or HED, Mavic would be great, but the money factor is just too big. On the racing front what do you do to ensure you peak for 30 races a year, I would struggle to do that but as I said before I am not at the pointy end of the field, whereas you are.
Do you train and race every other weekend throughout the season and what distances are you racing over
enough said
Steve, I have been thinking about shelling out for a set of Hed3 in clinchers for a while (just don’t like glue), as they do seem to offer pretty good bang for buck. As consumers we are faced with huge amounts of wind tunnel data, marketing hype and then the various opinions out there that range from that wheel is awesome to somebody else thinking its terrible.
The guy who highlighted the transition thing is right on the money, just the same way that my marathon would have been quicker with me not losing a substantial amout of my calories at IM AZ, but race wheels are nice to have and I can afford them, what I can’t justify doing is spending more on my wheels than I did on my bike.
Hed seem to be in a pretty good place when you look at price versus what you get in quality. When I look at the pro athelte thing, I use the following hypothesis, Lance or CW would not use something that gave them a material disadvantage in the race as they want to win. So the chance that the HED wheel quality is of significant disadvantage to them is very low, same as if the Mavic wheel that Bikedoc highlighted were to give them a material advantage, then they would use it.
Now I know that people get paid money to race on certain products, but long term ther is no advantage to using a product that is so poor that you might lose to the other guy on the mavic wheel, thus reducing your winnings and future sponsorship dollars. Thus the thoery that the difference is so small it does not matter.
Now that I’ve got that out of the way, what can you tell me about the Hub used in the Hed3 and handling of the wheel?
Thanks
Hed or Zipp wheel combos will be faster than any Mavic combo for pretty much any conditions I’m pretty sure (there is some wind tunnel data on this that you can find searching the web). Regarding Hed quality I’ve never experienced any more problems than when I was using Mavic and Campy wheels so I think that’s a non issue as there can be problems with any wheels depending on wear and tear and how the wheels are taken care of. As for the handling of the H3 it can feel a bit different to begin with but doing some training with the wheels will make you used to it and after a while they feel like most other aero wheels so it’s just a matter of adaptation. The hubs in the +10 pairs of H3’s I’ve had have been fine and is certainly nothing that will hold you back.
Hed wheels are ridden by Astana and Team Columbia and Hed also have a long history with Lance and Levi etc. They don’t pay either teams or Lance and Levi to ride their stuff so at least that gives you some kind of idea they make pretty good equipment regardless of what people without any real way to quantify how quick a wheel is say about them.
Thanks for the report. I have enjoyed my rear trispoke for many years. Actually, it is a “specialized” before it was sold to Hed.
When I was looking for a new front wheel, a former pro you may remember, Roy Knickman, recommended the H3. He enjoyed working with the Hed family and loved this wheel. I do too.
Oh, I do remember the Specialized version, that was awhile ago. And of course I remeber Roy since he was my idol during my junior racing years. I don’t think anyone has equaled what he accomplished at the Junior Worlds in 83’ (New Zealand, if I remember right). Bronze medal in the 100km TTT in LA, absolute stud. tell him hi, if you see him.
Bjorn is right on the mark. A large majoirty of racers that use Hed wheels are not paid to do so, which is part of why I wanted try them in the first place. I can’t speak to the technical details of the hubs, but they certainly seem smoother than wheels I have used previously that have rattling dust covers. The handling is a non-issue for me. I have raced rev-x’s previously and I would not hesitate to use these wheels in a road race if it were allowed (I think tri spokes have been banned for mass start races). I caught a few good gusts in Kona for sure, but that has been the case with any wheel that I have used there. The rider has to learn to relax and the wheel tracks straight and does a lot of the work for you. Like all products, it may not be for everybody, but I am glad I have had the chance to try them and can assure you that I will contiue to use them in the future.
So what’s your name?
Continental Competition 19mm front/rear. That is my favorite tire to race although I know the data is showing perhaps the 22mm would be faster. For me, the 199 mm has always felt and proven to be fastest.
Which data would that be? If you’re talking about rolling resistance, then my thoughts would be that whatever small amount you’d gain going with a wider tire on that wheel would be “given back”, and then some, due to a poorer aerodynamic match between the wheel width and the tire…especially if there is ANY wind whatsoever.
I’ve got a copy of the old “Cycling Science” article that talks about the original development of this wheel by some engineers at DuPont (who then sold the design to Specialized, who ultimately sold it to Hed). The wheel was designed around a **18C **tire! In addition, over the years there have been multiple wind tunnel tests of this design (at multiple locations), and the one clear trend on this wheel’s performance is, the narrower the tire, the lower the drag 
So…your “seat of the pants” determination of what is fastest on that wheel has some good backup. I always recommend that if someone wants to get the most speed out of an H3, put on the lowest rolling resistance, but narrowest tire, that you can find.
Now…about that rolling resistance part…I’m pretty sure we can find you something with significantly lower Crr than those Contis
BTW, why does Lance still rock an H3? Because the guys who designed the wheel way back at DuPont hit a friggin’ home run with it. With the right tire on the wheel, it’s a VERY tough wheel to beat across the board, across all conditions. 'nuff said.