Health care system

I dont get involved into politics that much but I have been paying close attention to these debates. I can’t vote so this wont change much for me but I wanted to ask this question about healthcare.

Coming from Canada, I have always been frustrated at the fact that here, if you are self imployed, not part of a group, it’s hard to afford health insurance and the insurances put pre existing conditions on every single little thing. That really bugs me. someone has to control the insurance companies and regulate what they can and can’t do. I am also outraged at the fact that one could be denied coverage for a pre existing condition. I dont believe a fully socialized healthcare system is the solution but I do believe that regulating insurances is important.

I was shocked to hear Hillary saying that she recommends that. i am not found of her but agree on that point for sure. Does any other candidate propose to regulate the insurances like that?

I am also in the healthcare field so it’s a catch 22 for me… whatver medicare does deeply affects my practice… whole different debate…

This topic sounds spot on for the LR…not a tri forum.

And this has what to do with triathlons?

Marisol…someone will move the thread. The new guys can get over themselves, you have the gravitas to post on the wrong forum.

The state of Illinois is a MESS as pertaining to healthcare. The first thing that we need to change is the MedMal laws as well as “over treating” every freaking patient who walks in with the latest greatest gizmo in the clinic (for $20,000).

When I was in my car accident I got MRI, CT and EEG…cause I “may” have bumped my head. Did I need them? No, but they did them cause if I was that one in 1,000,000,000,000,000 with an odd brain bleed I could sue…

Blago wont fix that here…Obama and Blago…dont get me going.

Until someone moves the thread, from the Economist & a cited UN study: the US spends more per patient than all other nations yet has the lowest decrease in avoidable deaths. Infant mortality is also on the rise in the US.

Tell me again how a free market system for healthcare is supposed to be better?

My father had a heart attack last Feb, and needed angio and a quad bypass. Angio done within 2 days, surgery in 1 week. Cost to him: ZERO.

I will GLADLY pay my Canadian income taxes to know that the vast majority of my country’s citizens and residents will be cared for, regardless of income. But then again, I believe that it is in a nation’s best interest to care for its citizens, and not for HMOs or corporations.

Rant off,
AP

And this has what to do with triathlons?!

I am SO SORRY> I really didnt mean to post in main forum, I am not sure what hapens. I never post politics, can someone please move this? thanks

How about because many advanced procedures are not available there? How about the fact that the doctors there do not have the education, nor skill of the top US doctors?

Please dont forget…the ER is open 24x7. If your father showed up at the ER at Rockford Memorial Hospital he would not have waited more than a couple hours for an Angiogram. Interventional Radiologists would have seen him in the ED and he would have been taken care of…

Oh, and it DID NOT cost him 0 - it cost all of you. In addition, why is it that so many Canadians come here for healthcare?

andypants, I am struggling with my mother’s recent diagnosis of glioblastoma right now and we are dealing with this with our free canadian healthcare. i have to say that I have been pleased with most of the care so far under this system. I think there were steps that would of definitly been better under the US system but i live in the states and am getting opinions from docs there. For emergencies, free healthcare is great. if you need a hip replacement, forget it. They also left her at the ER for 4 hours, and forgot to transfert her for surgery the next day but i guess that could happen anywhere… Remember that nothing is “free” either, we pay for it one way or another.

One point to raise is how it’s abuse. it’s free so people go to ER for various non important reasons. i belive a regulated middle ground may work better.

…My father had a heart attack last Feb, and needed angio and a quad bypass. Angio done within 2 days, surgery in 1 week. Cost to him: ZERO…
My mother had something similar. Angio that same day (at night), surgery the next day. Total cost: $10. I will take the American system anyday.

Marisol, you should read the Malcolm Gladwell article on healthcare economics to understand better why you are currently in this situation. You’ll find that a lot of the precepts that underlie our current system don’t really make a lot of common sense, nor do they actually work in practice.

Your situation is such because you are not part of a large group, so your personal situation can’t be offset by the law of large numbers. You also have no negotiating leverage so they can and will ding you with every condition they can think of. But mostly, because you are 1 and not 1 of 1000, the insurance companies don’t get the actuarial predictable behavior they like and find profitable. The other problem is that the entire system is based on the notion that all Americans are hypochondriacs, so that if they just price healthcare high enough and make it difficult enough to get, people will “reduce” their use of healthcare to economically efficient levels. Of course, I don’t and you probably don’t know anybody who gets up in the morning and decides they really want a doctor visit just because its covered and who knows, it might be a good idea. Instead, this system discourages people from going when some pathologies can be caught early, and only end up going when it becomes critical and a lot more expensive. That’s not an efficient system. Abuse of the system is way overstated and frankly, if somebody sat down and thought about it, they would find it hard to believe that many people would want to go, and hence, aren’t likely to do so.

A friend of a friend of mine, a 34 yr old woman, recently injured herself in a fall in her house earlier this year. After bearing the pain in her back for a few months, it became unbearable and went to the doctor. Over the course of a couple of weeks in December, the diagnosis went from fractured vertebrae to an ultimate diagnosis of Stage IV breast cancer, spread to her bones and liver. Her femur was replaced over Christmas, a procedure I didn’t even know was possible. As most of you know, there is no Stage V, so her prognosis is grim - 18-24 months with treatment, obviously a lot shorter without. Fortunately, if one can term it that, she had recently started a new job, so her treatments will be covered, although she was not there long enough to qualify for disability, so her other expenses will be problematic.

In any case, if one can imagine what position she would have been without coverage, I think its safe to say that those, including our esteemed Commander-in-Chief, should be able to agree that availability of ER visits is not exactly a healthcare policy. ER is fine for a broken arm, not so much for a real health problem. But hey, we’re in the greatest system in the world, so being on your own is definitely better than being covered, right?

It’s a strange system. My employer pays about $8,000 for me to have insurance (over $100,000 since I got this job). I pay $1 a year towards the policy. I might see the doctor once a year, and usually it’s an office visit, and I pay a $50 co-pay on those. I don’t get much for my money. When I was headed over to Africa, I was told to get a hepatitis shot. I went ahead and did it, but my plan refused to cover it. I was told if I was a child, it would be covered – but not if I was an adult. When I asked if they’d cover me if I actually GOT hepatitis and needed treatment, the answer was a resounding yes! At any rate, my plan has been crafted in such a way that preventative measures are rarely covered…which seems kinda dumb to me…but of course that varies by each plan.

When my mother was dying with Stage IV ovarian cancer, it was almost a daily struggle with the insurance companies. They really didn’t want to pay for hospice care, instead wanting her sent home, caring for her there would have been nearly impossible for my father. It sucked having to struggle with insurance companies during her final days.

Get over to the Lavender Room.

Like your logic though. Our system sucks, because your friend got the best of everything for free but somehow everybody elses suck, and it is all Bush’s fault.

Now you’re talking absolute nonsense. Obviously you know absolutely nothing about the Canadian education or health care systems. This chart tells it all. The US system is a multi tiered system that is the least effecient and most expensive in the developed world.

http://i29.tinypic.com/10zpo5u.jpg

The number of Americans who buy prescription medication courtesy of Canada’s price controls is orders of magnitude higher than the number of Canadians seeking treatment in the US. If you were to look up the latter, you’d see what a pitiful lie you’ve been fed.

Now you’re talking absolute nonsense. Obviously you know absolutely nothing about the Canadian education or health care systems. This chart tells it all. The US system is a multi tiered system that is the least effecient and most expensive in the developed world.

What is the criteria that says it is the least efficient? Because of cost? When you need healthcare, it is the most efficient in the world.

The chart show apple to oranges. The quality of healtcare in Argentina to Italy differs greatly to the quality of care in the US.

“When you need healthcare, it is the most efficient in the world.”

Tell that to the 40 million Americans who don’t have coverage.

If you’re fortunate to be part of the 10-15% of the population that that has the CEO Cadillac Gold plan, then you are getting the best coverage in the world. Problem is that the US has a multi-tiered system that excludes many Americans. The biggest cause of personal bancruptcy in the US is inability to pay medical bills. This is not a concern to citizens in other western countries that have government run health care.

Free market “for profit” health care is not as effecient to administer as centralized government care. The fact that the US spends twice as much per capita as anywhere else and is not getting the results to show for it clearly indicates this.

The number of Americans who buy prescription medication courtesy of Canada’s price controls is orders of magnitude higher than the number of Canadians seeking treatment in the US. If you were to look up the latter, you’d see what a pitiful lie you’ve been fed.

Lie? No, I work in the health care system. Granted, some US idiots are buying “Canadian” meds. Canada has serious restrictions on MedMal claims…thus, when a drug comes out the MFG does not need to build the cost of MedMal into the price of the pill. Sure it is the same drug…but it is not the same court case.

Like I said, the first thing they need to do is fix MedMal here…but…the lawyers wont let that happen. Hillary nor Obama will let that happen…drug companies are evil right? Research is free right?

This is just absolute horse shit.

The vast majority of the population will never see the best MD’s in the US, let alone the world.

The best medical schools in other countries are comparable to the best in the US, I’m reasonably sure that a med student at a big 10 med school might perhaps like to go to Oxford or Cambridge if they had the opportunity in much the same way they might like to go to Harvard but unfortunately not all med students are created equal in much the same way that not all MD’s are equal and most people, the vast majority will never get to interact with the best.

As to the quality and availability of elective care being less in Canada.

If you want a Hernia repaired, arguably the single best place on the planet to have it done is Canada at a place called the Shouldice clinic. The surgeons that work there are not all MD’s that specialized in surgery but some surgeons, anesthetists and general practitioners. These have all be trained to repair Hernia’s, they do NOTHING else.

Here’s some stat’s of Shouldice compared to the average (which lets face it is what most americans will end up with)

In most hospitals the repair of a hernia can take up to 90 mins, costs $2-4k and fails in 10-15% of cases

Shouldice do this same op in 30-45 mins at half the cost with a less than 1% re-occurrence rate

I know where I’d want to go, in much the same way that I might choose HSS in NY for a joint replacement and a number of other hospitals depending on the condition but the argument that “their” or “other” doctors are not as well trained is facile, truth is a number of people here will be treated in most hospitals by people that were trained abroad.

“When you need healthcare, it is the most efficient in the world.”

Tell that to the 40 million Americans who don’t have coverage.

If you’re fortunate to be part of the 10-15% of the population that that has the CEO Cadillac Gold plan, then you are getting the best coverage in the world. Problem is that the US has a multi-tiered system that excludes many Americans. The biggest cause of personal bancruptcy in the US is inability to pay medical bills. This is not a concern to citizens in other western countries that have government run health care.

Free market “for profit” health care is not as effecient to administer as centralized government care. The fact that the US spends twice as much per capita as anywhere else and is not getting the results to show for it clearly indicates this.

Since when? You are telling me that the Social Security system is more efficient than anything else? Or if you are on Medicare, you get better care if you are luckly enough to go on to a good HMO plan than stay with Medicare? The table is clearly skewed. Does the table show how long the wait is to have an operation? There are many other factors not based on absolute costs like the quality of patient care.

If you used your example of cost, then we all would drive the cheapest car or use Shimano Tiagra components.

In the US, you can get extremely good medical care where you cannot in other places in the world.

Hernia? A kid can fix that…

Please…what country is on the leading edge of Cancer, Cardio, Ortho, Transplant, Medical imaging devices…