Anybody read this book by British economist Richard Layard? I just listened to him on NPR, and his book is supposed to address the “paradox” that while our standard of living has basically doubled since the fifties, nobody’s any happier.
If anybody’s read it, is it any good?
I’m too depressed to spend my large amounts of money to buy new books.
Isn’t that the diminishing utility in economics? You know, your thirsty so you drink a glass of water, well that is good but if you drink 10 glasses of water you might end up hating the last few. So just because I can afford more non-essential stuff that doesn’t translate into me liking myself any better. The two exceptions are porn and anything made of carbon fiber. The wife doesn’t like me too have porn and I don’t have the money for carbon fiber so I’m sad all the time.
Isn’t that the diminishing utility in economics?
That’s at least part of what he was saying. Shame that our economic system doesn’t recognize that.
Isn’t an economic system very much different from the perceptions of individuals?
I think our economic system does fine with diminishing returns/utility, it’s the people that don’t do well with it.
Isn’t an economic system very much different from the perceptions of individuals?
I guess that depends on what you think an economic system should be- either an impersonal machine for producing material goods, or a system to meet the needs of the people it serves.
I’ll check it out.
Interesting. He didn’t mention anything at all about taxes in the NPR interview. Did he really say we should all be taxed to bring everyone to the same level?
Happiness is in you and if you are unhappy at what ever income your at now you will be unhappy with les or more.
A point that he made in the interview, sort of. I think the whole point of the book (I don’t actually know, I haven’t read it yet) is that past a certain point that we’ve already achieved, more money doesn’t get you more happiness. And yet we continue to strive for more money, and have the expectation that it will bring more happiness.
(And happiness isn’t just some internal thing entirely removed from outside influence. Lots of things influence happiness one way or the other, economic realities among them.)
The whole thesis seems to be that money can’t buy happiness—Well, I just did a Google search and found some studies that disprove this thesis. In fact, according to these studies, there is a general positive correlation between money and happiness. (There is a larger correlation between sex (frequency thereof) and happiness, though, according to one study.)
I know some poor people and I know some rich people. Some of the poor people I know are happy, but most are not. In fact, they are depressed, bitter, and hateful. Some of the rich people I know are unhappy, but most are not. In fact, most feel blessed and lucky, and are actively engaged in giving back to their churches and communities.
If you know a person who is well off and unhappy, take some of his money away and see how happy that makes him.
Saw an interview with him last night on TV. Sounds like crap to me. Part of what he says is we need to be taxed to bring everyone to the same level so there will be no rat race. He is just a socailist trying to put a new spin on a failed economic model.
Happiness is in you and if you are unhappy at what ever income your at now you will be unhappy with les or more.
I think this should be tested. Everyone send me some money and I will let you know if I am happier or not.
Everything I know I learned from Fight Club!
The whole thesis seems to be that money can’t buy happiness—Well, I just did a Google search and found some studies that disprove this thesis. In fact, according to these studies, there is a general positive correlation between money and happiness.
I probably shouldn’t be answering on behalf of Layard, since I haven’t even read the book, actually. But I’m gonna do it anyway.
The fact is that, as I said in my original post, that our standard of living has roughly doubled in real terms over the past few decades. And by every measure, we’re not any happier. (This was the same paradox that some author Art recommended tried to solve. I read the whole stupid book, and I can’t remember the title or the author’s name. Shoot. Who am I talking about, Art?)
I don’t think there’s any doubt poor people are likely to be unhappy. But most of us aren’t poor, just as most of us aren’t rich. But we’re getting richer all the time, and it isn’t increasing our happiness. If I was destitute, yes, I imagine money could buy me significantly more happiness. But I’m not destitute, and more money isn’t likely to make me much happier.
If you know a person who is well off and unhappy, take some of his money away and see how happy that makes him.
That’s one of the observations Layard made in the NPR interview, actually. It hurts more to lose money than it satisfies to gain the same amount of money. In other words, if I lose $100, it makes me pretty darn unhappy. If I gain $100, it doesn’t make me pretty darn happy. Apparently it’s a phsychological rule of thumb that gain is only half as satisfying as loss is painful.
To address your first point, more isn’t better. We all know that. The majority of Americans have just about all they need, IMHO, but it’s never enough, I guess.
I’ll throw another wrench in this thread. Happiness is cultural … and geographic:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3157570.stm
The happiest people in the world are often the poorest, but they live in sunny, fun countries. Yes, some of those places are filled with violence and disease, too, but people who live closer to the Equator really enjoy their days and nights, if I may generalize.
I’ve been all over the world, and people in the Tropics have a great time whatever they are doing, maybe because its the only thing that gets them through. Whether busting ass or with the family or whatever … In Mexico sure you may have to wait an hour at the bank, but is is fun because everyone teases and bullshits while they wait. In the States everyone pisses and moans and stresses out if there is a line. In Mozambique (where I was for 2+ years) going to the market was a day-long pain in the ass but also really fun, too … Suicide is common in the U.S., Japan and Russia. It’s very uncommon in Latin America and Africa. Dinero does not equal happiness, not at all.
A few thoughts FWIW:
Are poor people unhappy because they are poor, or poor because they are unhappy? Conversely, are rich people rich because they are happy, or happy because they are rich? It could be argued that, if you are an unhappy person, your earning potential is diminished because of your mental outlook. For example, who wants to hire a person into a high-paying job that has a crappy outlook? The same argument has been made about studies that show that married people are happier than unmarried people–i.e., are they happy because they are married or married because thay are happy?
People generally do not understand the concept of “standard of living.” They look only at the constant dollar cost of things and assume they must not be getting ahead. They do not look at the amount of time needed to work to buy the basic neccessities of life as being lower now than ever before. They think because the cost of gas was $0.22 per gallon in 1965 and $2.00 per gallon now that it is more expensive. However, in real terms it is actually cheaper–that is, it requires a smaller percentage of their income to purchase now than it did then.
There is a rising level of expectations built into people’s thought processes. If, for example, I expect to get a 5 percent raise next year, and then I only get a 4 percent raise, I am unhappy even though in real terms I may be better off than I was last year. People also expect to be better off than their parents. Most people today do not think they are better off than their parents, even though statistically they probably are. I think that overly “rosy” memories of past times may have something to do with that. I think our memories tend to focus only on the good stuff and forget the bad stuff. If I look at where I am financially compared to where my parents were at may age, I am way, way ahead. Am I happier than they were? Maybe a little, maybe not–but when I was 18, I expected to be retired and a millionaire by 40. Here I am at 50 still working and no where near a millionaire. If I focused on my unrealistic teenage expectations, I would be very unhappy, indeed.
New study, but old news.
A lot of people have more things but are working much harder and longer to acquire them.
Social structure and a sense of community belonging have been determined as factors for happiness. Alienation and feelings of uncertainty are reasons for unhappiness.