I was wondering if STLTRICoach or anyone else had actually been to Innsbrook for a first hand scouting report on those hills. I have looked at the run profile but I can’t really translate that into firsthand knowledge of the course.
It’s nice that they have the training day at Innsbrook but I am out of town that weekend and won’t have a chance to scout it out myself.
As for preparations for the course I am just trying to incorporate as many hills as possible into my routes and doing hill pick-ups at least once a week.
I am going to do a twenty miler on a fairly hilly route tomorrow but I’m wondering if these hills are still puny compared to Innsbrook.
Any scouting reports or hill training feedback is highly appreciated.
Did 1/2max last year they may be changing the run course but would still be similar from what I understand. 1/2 the run is on gravel roads but good surface. As I described the course to friends the only flat part of the course was the one step you took before going up or down. There were areas the seemed flat but had a slight grade. I consider it possibly the toughest run I’ve done. The bike last year was pretty easy especially when comparied to the run course but they have changed the bike course.
Bike is moderately hilly, mostly rollers, nothing too challenging though…
I live and train in a hilly area…the 1/2 max run course is one of the most difficult and hilly run courses I have ever done…not many long climbs, but lots of little steep hills…they are like ravines…down steep, up steep, repeat, repeat, repeat all the way through.
Mots of the rin is on gravel roads/trails, very scenic…shady, etc.
Sing ths song on that run…up and down…up and down…
FWIW, I did the race last year but I haven’t been out on the new course yet. I talked to someone at the pool on Monday who was there over the weekend and he said both courses had been flattened considerably - the bike course has less rollers, and the run has cut out some of the steeper sections. Again, this is all hearsay.
I’m doing some of the course while on a 112-miler tomorrow AM, according to the course designers the bike will actually be easier since the hills are near the beginning, as oppoosed to all the “significant” climbing being in the last miles before T2 last year… the bike wasn’t challenging last year, but I may have held back to run better if I has scouted the run, big mistake not doing that… now I have been told to expect the run to be just as hard as last year, I went out at sub 7/min/mi pace and was walking at the first aid station thinking “it’s really f-ing hilly here” + HR=way too high, went home to shower and stayed home missing the awards ceremony, I was smoked… I cannot think of a race to compare it too besides the Pere Marqutte 7.5mi trail run in grafton, illinois, man that’s hard… most courses have a hill or two, but these just keep coming… now it reminds me of observation hill on the IMMOO run course for those familiar… will report on bike after we’ve ridden some of it tomorrow… swim is pristine though, very easy… the first runnning hill is to T1, that sucks after getting out of the water!
well we didn’t do much of the course since it’s different, but it shouldn’t be too bad, the pavement is new on most of the roads though, so that will help… basicaly the hills are in the resort, which aren’t too bad according to me, I’m looking to go 23.0 on the bike, did 21.2 last year on little training and rode my road bike with jammerbars, this year I’m bringing out the big TT dog since it’s not that hilly… the run is just as hard as ever, did 7:38/m last year, would like to go 7min/mi this year, so I’m not going to blow up on the first mile trying to run 6min/mi… there is no way to make an easier run course and stay in the resort, so it’s always going to be hard. if the bike was harder it may rival the WTH???
The race takes place at a totally different place than last year. The swim is across the lake from last years. The bike is much harder. The first 5 miles in the park is a series of small steep hills. It is not tri bike friendly. You can go anarobic very quickly on them. They come one after another. After that the next 10 miles are flat fast and smooth. The bike is two of these 15 mile loops for the 1/4 and 3 for the 1/2 plus the 1/2 has a dogleg to add distance it is also flat and fast. I have not done the run but hear it is as hard as last year? Couldn’t be harder.
just an update on the course from training there yesterday:
swim - still great, pristine, spring-fed, good-tasting, but water was 74 yesterday so my guess is wetsuits are in jepordy.
bike - easier than last year, first 5-6 miles of each loop are very short steep rollers, then the rest is fast (the new compact cranks were sweet on those hills!)
run - similar to last year with constant up and down, never a flat moment, but somehow not as bad b/c a few of the steeper, longer hills that were out by the stables have been taken out of the course in favor of a 2 loop run course this year - basically, if you bike too hard your time will suffer
My brother and I think the bike course is MUCH harder than last year. It is very hard to race it without going anaerobic (sp)on the hills . Then the rest of the course is much harder with your heartrate spiking. Now if you go very slow up the short /hard hills you may lose to much time to place. It’s a very hard course to figure out and you have to do it 2 times. The hills are all in the 1st 5 miles so they keep coming very quickly and it’s hard to recover.
What do you think about using a disk? Last year it was a no brainer the disk really helped.
Have you seen that run course??? I met a billy goat at the top of one and he was puking from the climb : 0
If you’re doing the half, you’ll have to do that hilly section 3x (only 2x for the quarter). I’m not sure about the disk (I don’t have to worry about it b/c I don’t have one) but I would imagine any marginal time gained would be offset by lugging it up those hills. As for the pace on the hills, you will NOT win your place on the podium by charging up them due to the negative effect that will have on your run. IMO, the only place to earn a spot on the podium in this race is on the run - show a lot of guts there and you’ll do well.
I haven’t decided whether it’s harder or not. We all though that once you got through the hills, the back flat section seemed like a slight incline the whole way. We looked at the profile and that is not the case. So, we assumed it felt uphill b/c we were fatigued from the hills. The group we went with didn’t like climbing.
That said, I like to climb. I only hit 170HR (192max) on the very last steep hill before the turn out of Innsbrook. I rode my road bike and only used the 39/23 on the last hill (still above 70rpm). I think you can gain some momentum into most of the 5 or 6 climbs, it just depens if you have any gas to get going into the climbs or if you are recovering the whole time between hills. We were easily cruising at 23+mph on the flats. If the wind is out of the west then you will be able to hold high speeds on the back section. We dicked around alot and still avg’d 18.5 for three loops, so I think it will be fast if you are a strong cyclist and have an affinity for climbing
For people who do not redline on the hills, they will have faster times than last year. If you cannot climb the hills without going over say, 85-90% max, then you will have some time recovering before you can open it back up on the flats.
I like the fact that the hills are in the beginning, and not right before T2, except for that last little one. I’m going to hammer the bike, since the hills will probably make me walk on the run anyways. Plus, there are primes for fastest splits on the day for each discipline. The race organizers have made it an all out attack I think. There will be alot of casualties!!!
It’s a very interesting race . I did two laps and took it sort of easy on the second and averaged 20. I could do better IF i want to rush those speed bumps. There are hills just after them and slowing down hurts your run at them.
What do you think about a disk. It will be that or a HED 3???
I don’ think the weight will slow anyone down that much. Carry half a water bottle less and your bike weighs the same. I think the disc will make a big difference on the back side, and will help you carry more speed into the couple of rises on the back. If you can power over them keeping HR low then you can get right on to hammering again.
The speed bumps are challenging. I think I did all of them near full speed. That was on my road bike. I got air on most of them. It’s nerve racking, but it will kill you to slow way down and roll over them, then bust ass to get back up to speed. It would make the first 6 miles really anaerobic.
That said, I think I may be more careful on bullhorns. They did pull up one before the lake crossing. I could bunnyhop that one, so was disappointed they pulled it up If I remember correctly, only one person ate it on the speed bumps last year.
It should be fun, every other local race has easy bike courses. Short swim, tough bike, survival run… just like it should be!
I went on Friday and Mark was thinking it was 50/50 as to the water temp.
Weather looks warm the next couple of weeks, so that won’t help. I swam w/o a wetsuit to get used to doing it in that lake. It was really cold swimming through some of those spots. So hopefully, the measure the temp in one of those!
My question is this, what gearing are you using? I come from an area where it is relatively flat and have a 54/42 front and 11/23 on the back. It’s no problem up here, because the hills are easy rollers. From what I’m reading on this forum on 1/2 max website, this course has some pretty steep hills. So… can I assume that a 12/25 cassette would be in order for a scrawny 140 lb. runt like myself?
I’ll run a 53/39, 11-23 on 650’s. If you think you need smaller gears, then I’d put them on. You may be doing 10.8 instead of 11.4, but if you HR is 5-10 beat lower then it’s worth it. You’ll only lose 30s on each climb and will be fresher for the flats, and more importantly, the run.
I wouldn’t classify them as “steep”, but I’ve climbed alps before. Still, I’ll sit and spin up them and keep HR as low as possible and rpms 75+.
I wore one in Lake St.Louis when the water was like 84. Damn that was hot, but for 800y who cares? Plus, it wasnt a USAT race.
Innsbrook was fine w/o one, it’s a nice lake. Fairly calm, alot of good things to sight off of. Of course, last year, we swam straight into the sunrise. That was tough.
did the course last weekend and i can usually ride with most triathletes on hills. this said, the first 5.5 miles has some short to moderate steep hills. these hills can get you anaerobic! the speed bumps didn’t bother me at all i never slowed down but my speed didn’t help me up the hills much at all. but i seem to recover pretty quickly and once you leave the resort it is flat and fast. i think the hardest part of the race is the run course, you have constant hills and most are short and steep. i’ve been doing tri’s for 8 years and this will be the hardest run course i have done. good luck to all!!!
If I remember correctly, only one person ate it on the speed bumps last year.