What are your views about these two wheels, are they considered equal in performance. What adv/disadvantages on both.
I just did some interviews with product guys from Zipp and HED and wrote up a quick little summary here:
http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/...009_racewheels.shtml
Now, the primary difference in technology between older wheels such as the HED 3C and the new HED 3C Deep and the new Zipps (and HED spoked wheels for that matter) is the current trend toward wider rim widths.
On the left is the new, wider version of HED’s spoked wheels while on the right is the previous width rim (not a HED 3, shown for comparison). 
Here is the HED 3C Deep on the right with the new HED Jet Disk on the left. You can see that the HED 3C Deep on the right is narrower than the the new disk on the left. The trend now is toward a slightly wider rim to lower rolling resistance. Zipp has also adopted this philosophy along with significant redesigns to their hubs: 
Basically, the question is one of spokes vs. carbon struts and new wide rim vs. older narrow rim. On the matter of spokes vs. carbon fiber struts (HED 3C) the spokes offer wheel dish (angular relationship of hub flange to rim center) that provides better corenering and shock absorption. The spoked wheels have nicer ride quality- especially now with the wider rim bed on both HED (spoked wheels, Jet 6 and 9, etc, NOT the HED 3C which is still narrow rim) and Zipp. The HED 3C is still an excellent wheel, but recent finidings in aerodynamics and rolling resistance mean technology in the new, wider rims from both Zipp and HED likely eclipse the perfromance of the HED 3C overall. Remember- stright line aerodynamics is an improtant part of the picture when buying wheels- but it is only one of the parts of the “triad” of wheel performance that includes aerodynamics, durability and weight. With the addition of the wider rim beds there is also the opportunity for lower rolling resistance at lower tire pressures.
H3 pricepoint makes way more sense.
From what I have learned, if you can ride over 25 MPH, go with a disc or deep faring, if not go with the HED 3.
Hi Tom
Apart from eliminating the annoying dust cap rattle on the older zipp hubs, what other improvements have resulted from zipp hub re-design?
With all the discussion of H3 being a narrow rim and bring old technology look at which front wheel lance chose for the TOC TT’s and Levi too I believe
You got it
Hed3
The component I referred to as a “alloy dust cap” is actually not a dust cap- that was an error in vernacular on my part and I have to get back in there and fix it. It is a bearing preload endnut. The improved dust caps/sealing comes from the additional labyrinth seal, and rubber o-rings, which are under the end nut. The red anodized piece in the photo.
Now, one thing that HED and Zipp both mentioned to me is that the wheels that guys like Armstrong are riding *are not *the wheels us AG’ers should be on. Here’s why: I’m a decent AG cyclist in local triathlon terms. I often have the fastest or second fastest bike split in my AG and one of the better bike splits of the day in a small local tri. My average speed seldom tops 23 MPH for an Olympic distance with an occasional 23.5 MPH average and a few 22.8 MPH average thrown in. The HED 3C and HED 3C Deep especially along with all front wheels over 60 mm deep and most rears over 80 mm deep are actually a little too deep for this speed regime. In other words, when you take into account all the factors of wheel performance: Weight, cornering, crosswind stability, aerodynamics and rolling resistance then the super deep wheels are too heavy and too aero for the “low” speeds us AG’ers ride at. Now, If we were up around 26, 27, 28 29 M.P.H. average speeds then we may benefit from deeper section fronts such as used by Lance and the really fast guys capable of averaging 30 MPH plus.
In short, unless we are are very, very fast on the bike- well above 25 MPH average speed- then we are fastest on something about 60 mm deep with wire spokes in the front for the best overall combination of weight, aerodynamics, cornering and stability.
Shameless plug - I’m selling a like-new H3 wheelset in the classifieds, if you’re interested.
So, 25mph and slower avg. 60mm and less in the front
What is optimal in the rear at those speeds? Is a disc not optimal vs. 80mm rim? what about H3 in the rear?
When will H3 be a wide rim?
You say ‘way over 25mph’ - so 26.5mph avg. would not yield much of a change or would deeper and slat spokes be an advantage?
So is the H3 Clincher front grouped with wheels deeper than 60mm because of the weight or the wider profile it exposes to cross winds? I ask because I plan to race with an H3 up front and a relatively “heavy” rear - Shimano stock R500 with a wheel cover - granted it’s a sprint and the course is pancake flat. I’m and AG’er for sure, probably around 23/24mph for the Sprint. 2 questions then:
- Would I be better off just using my old Bontrager Race Lite wheelset?
- For Us AG-ers, what would you say is the optimal “all around” race wheel set (good for those flat courses, as well as the hilly ones)? A 60/80 combination, or maybe a 60 on the front and an 80 on the back?
That reads contrary to what I believe Hed has said in the past. Particularly regarding the H3 as a rear wheel. In fact, I think its contrary to their current website.