has anyone bought one of the Hed H3’s with the looser trueness spec? Have you noticed any real world drawbacks from running a wheel with 0.031" - 0035" out of true? I’ve read Dan’s article on this, and I’m just about ready to pull the trigger on a front race wheel, and I like the idea of saving $150 on an H3 by getting one of these slightly out of true wheels. By my calculations, an in-spec wheel at 0.025" would have a lateral play of 0.635mm, and an “out of spec” wheel of 0.031" would be 0.787mm; a delta of 0.152mm. That’s a savings of $1 for each additional 1/1000th of a mm of lateral deflection! Now, I know that nearly 1mm of out of true is noticeable on a truing stand but, given that the $510 wheel can be as much as 0.635mm out of true, is there any reason why I shouldn’t save $150 and just go for an extra 0.15mm out of true? Is this additional out of true somehow the difference between good and sloppy braking? I’d like some input from those that are running one of these “clearance” wheels (or anyone else, for that matter).
This may sound biased being the Oz importer of HED…but people who know me will vouch that i’m true to my word.
every so often, but not often (if you know wat i mean), I’ll receive a H3 that I AM NOT happy selling at full price. (it still passes all the HED tollerance levels…maybe i’m just picky), but not once have i ever sent one back. The wheels are dead set bomb proof, and it is IMO somewhat VERY hard to damage a H3 under normal race conditions. So some people have picked up bargins. I personally have used some of the wheels that have a kick in them. Anne sent some wheels over for Barb Linquist to train on while she was here, and i would only imagine (i never measured them) that these are the same ‘out of tollerance’ that are described and sold as a “second”. I now have them, and use them when ever i jump on the bike, even for training. I’m 94kg.
Now, you would think, that these wheels would kick or throw the bike around…nope. Feel like a dead set straight pair. It’s amazing that they feel so good.
Those prices are very good. There is no ride quality probs, and the only prob you’ll have, is if you like your brakes really really really tight. Otherwise, save yourself some buck buck bucks, and enjoy one of the fastest wheels on the market…oh…and look cool doing it 
But to answer your question
“is there any reason why I shouldn’t save $150 and just go for an extra 0.15mm out of true? Is this additional out of true somehow the difference between good and sloppy braking?”
There is no reason for not Buying and saving $150 but for a .15mm extra out of true. Theye are still fast, and will not throw u around. As for braking, like i said, It really only is a prob if you like really hard brakes.
…I was born naked, bury me naked.
I’ve used one for a couple ITT’s and TTT’s without any problems with the wheel. I’ve never noticed any difference unless I’m staring down at the wheel. No issues slowing down enough for turnarounds. I had maybe one issue with brake rub, but that was more a problem with having accidentally shimmed the brake into the wheel while warming up and not noticing it. Even then, all I had to do was open up the brake calipers and the problem was gone.
OzHEDDude, you hit on really the ONLY issue anyone should be concerned with. . .braking.
With an out of true wheel, the braking will not be 100% smooth and will pulse the braking somewhat. This can be an issue in less than perfect traction conditions (heavy rain, oily or dirty roads), etc, in that this pulse could break the wheel’s solid contact, even if the general brake pressure is not enough.
Now. . .with that said. . .this is a very remote possibility. . .but, for me, one that would preclude using these wheels under those conditions on a technical course where the need for subtle brake modulation and touch is at a premium. My failing powers of recollection can provide maybe 2 or 3 instances where this might have affected me in 20 years of racing.
So should you buy these wheels? Heck yes. You will be able to ride them 99% of the time and not feel any difference between them and the 100% HED certified pair, outside of a slight pulsing of the brake.
I will disagree with you on the pulse< i just don"t feel it as you would a rim with a dodgey join. if thats what you mean by a pulse in your braking.
I would rather pay 150$ more for a “select” wheel that was more accurate. I figure a race wheel like the Hed three should last 5-10 years based on still seing some of the old Dupont wheels still out there. I don’t want to sound like a snob, but I would rather pay more for the quality and have accurate wheels. G
I suppose it depends on the pitch of the runout. If the area of untrueness is relatively small then you will notice it. If it is more gradual, say over 1/2 the circumference, then I’d agree that it will be unnoticeable.
I had a set of H3´s where the back wheel where ovalized - not completely round and i hated them ! It was not out of the HED spec for true/roundness but nevertheless i could fell it with every turn of the wheel.
I ended up selling them (the new owner does not seem to mind the problem though - i am very sensitive about my equipment !) and getting a pair of Zipp wheels instead as the spokes can atleast be trued should it be neccesary.
Actually i had first bought a single Specialized model trispoke (same as the H3) backwheel, but i never rode it - when i installed it on my bike and spun the wheel the whole bike vibrated so ovalized was the wheel. I took it back to the dealer who just spun the wheel in his hands and took it back immediately. (no need to even measure it )
I will never again buy a composite wheel that is not completely perfect.
Can you explain the difference between the two options? It seems, obvilously, that there is a price break for buying the “out of true” wheels. I just bought a set and have had a problem with the rear. It is out of true by about .0035…the required bike check at Eagleman 1/2 made me go to the on-premises bike shop to make sure it wasn’t a problem, so it was pretty visible. I am wondering if I got a 2nd by accident.
I also got a cracked shim in that wheel the first time I rode it. I am not sure if that was caused by the out of trueness or not. It does seem that the wheels have some issues at times, according to the shop I bought them from.
HED is sending for my wheel and will re-true it when I get a break from racing. And they said they would have sent a replacement if they had one in the shop. So they seem to be good on service.
What was the article by Dan regarding the trueness?
As far as I know, the difference between a “good” wheel and a discounted wheel is the trueness spec only. These wheels wouldn’t be out of round, only out of true.
I’m guessing your wheel was out by .035", not .0035". The latter would be damn near impossible to detect by eye. On the rear H3’s, since you can’t true them they use a shim on the cassette body to align the wheel. If it was cracked that would explain why your wheel was out of true.
My training and racing wheels are HED I ride an Alps front with an out of true spec H3 rear. I can not feel the 1mm or .035 difference. The warranty is the unbeatable and the customer service can not be matched. I called on monday for a new alps front and it was on my door friday. HED is the best. I am 245lbs and would not ride anything but HED’s, zipp clydes do not cut plus if I were to call zipp would I get Mr or Mrs Zipp on the Phone. My advice is to call HED and speak with someone there, they put me at ease and will have my business, they are very often posters on here as well. BUY the out of true spec with confidence or maybe one of the race takeofffs also listed on the site.
Kevin
Yup, I’m 185 lbs and on Sunday I hit a pothole at 42 mph and I barely held on for my life. I stopped and put my chain back on and that was it. The front wheel looked straight as an arrow after. I checked the wheel when I got home and the Tufo tubular has a bad abrasion but the wheel rolls perfectly.
The H3 isn’t the lightest wheel in the world, but it is darn near bomb proof.
-Robert
Thanks for the reply.
It sounds like there is a regular program for the less-then-perfect wheels? Is that true?
The shim I have had to be taken out since it was broken. And I did ride on it in Eagleman…but it was kicked out of the bike check line for verification…so it was noticeable.
Do you know where the article is that mentions the study on out of true wheels?
Yes, Hed regularly sells out of spec wheels for a discount here:http://www.hedcycling.com/closeouts.htm
Here’s the article I referred to:
http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/product2004/wheels/wheelcharacter.html
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