Francois:
I think we need more right wing military neanderthals on this site, don’t you? Testosterone galore! Makes us proud to live in America. Makes us proud to be men. Makes me want to stay over at Gordo’s site where the thinking is a little clearer.
Jack
I agree with you on your first point. You are right. For some, target shooting is a hobby. Heck, it’s an Olympic sport! However, how many people fall into this group. 5%, 10%? Whatever it is, it is a small percentage of the population and no where near the majority.
It’s the second point that distrurbs me - that people feel the need to take up arms to defend and protect themselves and their property.
Agreed - that criminals will always find a way to get a gun.
And now the the ad hominem attacks? Out of ideas already?
I was in the military, have been a combat handgun instructor, have carried a concealed weapon permit and own three firearms- a custom Glock 19, a custom Colt M4 carbine (both I carried in the military) and a custom S&W tactical police shotgun. To me they are tools since the business I was in required them as part of my job.
My MOS in the military was 11B(P) and I was a light weapons specialist on our recon team and a scout observer, walking point for a five man recon team.
With this level of familiarity in firearms I can say with authority that the general public has absolutely no business owning firearms. None. They have consistently proven their complete inability to master even the three basic rules of firearms ownership: Every gun is always loaded, never point a gun at something you don’t intend to shoot and always double check your target before firing.
Gun ownership and the lack of instruction, responsibility and criminal element have established our society as one that does not deserve the privlege (and burden) of owning firearms.
People in the U.S. are insane. They shouldn’t be allowed to own guns unless they can prove exceptional competence and responsibility along with substantial accountability for anything resulting from their ownership of guns.
I don;t like the idea of government legislating common sense. But in the case of firearms, it is tough to not acknowledge the need for substantial controls over and above what we have.
Right now it is like the wild west. It is out of control. There is no place for firearms in our current society.
Certainly not! Wouldn’t want any potential murderers, rapists, muggers, child molesters, etc, to be afraid of anything.
""I don’t believe fear is an effective way of handling human interaction. "
Certainly not! Wouldn’t want any potential murderers, rapists, muggers, child molesters, etc, to be afraid of anything. "
damn straight! let’s just hang anyone who look at us funny. we don’t need guns when we have ropes. Potential!!! do you get to decide? Ever read or see “The Oxbow Incident”?
I am a non hunting gun owner. I enjoy the sport of shooting (targets)… It is a skill that is not easy to aquire and takes alot of practice to do right, much like swimming. I have a permit to carry concealed. I have had 2 friends in the last 5 years that had family members murdered in their own homes. Here is my rule, If someone is in my house uninvited, they wont have a chance to hurt anyone in my family. When I decided to buy a gun, I now have 5, I took a combat pistol course that is offered at an army base 2 hours from my house. Every Sunday for 12 weeks I got up and spent Most of Sunday learning to use a gun the gorrect way under the strict eyes of military personell. It all comes down to knowing the laws and knowing your equipment. I feel I have a good understanding of both.
I If you want to stop by my house come on over there is beer in the fridge, just call first.
Tom,
Great post!
Thank you for your input. As usual you have brought common sense and sanity to the discussion.
May I ask, with respect, that since you are now out of military service, why you still have three firearms in your possesion? In your life now, as a small business owner, what is the need for these guns in your day to day life?
Fleck
One of the realities of our society is that it is made up of diverse mindsets and societal backgrounds with different emotional dispositions. Different people use different tools to resolve conflicts.
For the average Slowtwitcher (articulate, literate, introspective, intelligent, responsible) gun ownership is not much different than owning a power tool with potentially lethal capabilities- except that unlike a table saw or staple gun a handgun or firearm is purpose built and optimized for murder. However, a resonably responsible, careful and intelligent peson can still own it responsibly.
Problem is, not everyone is like you and I. As I mentioned, our society is broad cross section of people ranging from psychopathic to very civil and well socialized and sane.
Because of the incredible lethality of modern firearms and ammunition they have no place is such a diverse culture. They are too dangerous.
Sure, guns don’t kill, people do- but that is exactly the problem. People do kill. They have proven their inability to responisbly own firearms- so they should be taken away.
Sorry Cerveloguy, but you know what they say, there are lies, damn lies, and then statistics.
You can’t compare murder rates in Canada and the US and attribute it to differences in law because you are not comparing statistically identical groups. Murder rates, and other crime rates, vary greatly depending upon the state or portion of a state you are looking at. I would believe that Canada on average is more similar to some of the lower crime areas of the US in terms of population density, drug traffic, and other parameters which are linked to crime. The laws for the low crime areas in the US are the same as the high crime areas in general.
In Phoenix we have the highest rate of car theft in the US, mainly because we are close to the Mexican border. Our theft laws are no different from anywhere else, so it is not the laws that are to blame, it’s the people.
It is worth noting that it currently takes more signatures to buy a bike in our store (seven initials on a liability waiver and two signatures- minimum) than it does to buy a handgun (three signatures) at a local gun store.
When a bicycle is more regulated than a combat assault rifle of roughly comparable price our society is out of control.
Francois,
Robbery is a persons crime, meaning the subject is in some way threatening you. An example would be a bank robbery or someone breaking into your house and confronting you to gain property, etc… Self-defense is justified in this case.
Burgalry is a property crime. An example would be someone breaking into your house or business, etc… when either no one is home or they do it but don’t confront anyone. Another example would be someone breaking into your car while it’s parked in your driveway but no one is in it. For this type of crime deadly force self-defense is not justifiable unless there are some extenuating circumstances.
Disappointing, Tom. You’ve seen enough to know what happens to good people without guns at the hands of bad people with guns. I believe that the right to life is fundamental and self defense is it’s corallary. To grant access to a proven self defense tool only to those with elite level training plays right into the hands of those who would do harm to the innocent without a second thought. Please, let us not reserve rights only for the elite.
The skills required to properly defend your life in a home break-in attack scenario are so complex and difficult to master it would take (minimum) six months of full-time, combat simulated training under all conditions to properly and responsibly instruct a potential combatant.
That is an unreasonable expectation for the average gun owner.
"Potential!!! do you get to decide? "
Yes, I believe an individul has the right to self defense before he/she is raped or murdered.
So are you saying that you are going to stand by and watch as someone rapes your wife or daughter or any number of possible scenarios like this. That is a coward, and I feel sorry for your family if you have one. You don’t even believe in your right tp protect yourself. When one of these things happens the first thing you are gonna do is call me, a cop. Should I leave my gun at the station so I don’t scare you? That is pitiful.
I agree with Tom, assuming a night time break-in with inadequate lighting it comes down to a Dirty Harry moment “Do you feel lucky punk?” Are you ready to assume that you can win a gun battle in your own home? Do you have small children that get up during the night and bang around? When awakened by a noise in the middle of the nighyt are you sure that you will be clear headed enough to make a potentially life changing decision? Here in Wisconsin a conceal/carry law was narrowly defeated in the state senate. The gun lobbies dumped huge amounts of cash trying to get it to pass, despite polls that showed a majority of citizens didn’t support it (many were hunters too). Virtually all of the police depts, sheriffs depts, and state patrol were opposed to the conceal/carry law. Shouldn’t that tell people something? Wisconsin is one of only 8 states that doesn’t have a conceal/carry law, does that make us stupid or enlightened? I have many friends who hunt and own guns, I would never have a gun in my house (just an old Lab with a big bark).
<<So the arguement “guns don’t kill, people do” holds no water IMO. The statistics speak for themselves. >>
Yes. The statistics speak clearly that automobiles are responsible for killing thousands upon thousands of lives each year. Automobiles should be outright banned! We have tried a progressive level of registration and licensing and regulation at all levels of government yet these killing machines manufactured solely for the profit of a corportation continue their wonton destruction of our society. The reason automobiles remain on the roads free to indescriminately kill is because of lobbies like the Automobile Associaton of America. If it were not for the AAA, we would have banned automobiles long ago. I dream of a day when society no longer has to live in fear of being mowed down by some four wheeled two ton killing machine.
AUTOMOBILES KILL!!! WHEN IS SOCIETY GOING TO GET THE MESSAGE??? WE MUST GET THESE EVIL DEVICES OFF OUR ROADS IF WE WANT TO BE SAFE!!! AUTOMOBILES ARE ONLY GOOD FOR KILLING INNOCENCT PEOPLE. THERE IS NO PROOF THAT ANYBODY NEEDS AN AUTOMOBILE TO SURVIVE.
Brett
timberwolf,
I don’t think anyone will admit to seeing the parallel. Great point though.
And don’t forget, don’t hold anyone responsible for the outcomes of their decisions and actions. “Its not my fault because…”
Thanks for your reminder.
What about a 16 year old driving a car? I would venture to say that there should be more training for a new driver than a new firearms owner.
How many 16 year olds have killed someone by shooting them as opposed to killing someone by driving an automobile? There is no comparison.
I do agree that a susbstantial amount of training is required for firearms. In my profession as tactical officer I have had the opportunity to train on many different weapons also. even though I can, I very rarely carry my weapon off duty.
I’m just making the point that far more people are killed every year by vehicles than by guns.
Hi, I’m confused about a lot of issues so I wrote this for everyone to see how confused I am:
I believe that the right to life is fundamental and self defense is it’s corallary. To grant access to a proven self defense tool only to those with elite level training plays right into the hands of those who would do harm to the innocent without a second thought. Please, let us not reserve rights only for the elite.
Thanks for witnessing my confusion.