Here’s one for all you jersey pinelands friends. This is why I am not a fan of handguns. On the other hand, I know where this town is and can understand why this might happen. A man minds his own business and people steal from his yard. Keeping in mind that I am in favor of some form of gun control, background checks, strict licensing, and vigilante justice, I think I might have a hard time convicting this guy. His neighbors would seem to agree with me. I live in South Jersey, near Philadelphia. Recently, a man was convicted of manslaughter for killing his neighbor. It seems they lived in a townhouse development. The dead guy was sleeping naked in his parents’ basement after a night of drinking. He went outside to relieve himself (that’s why it’s always nice to have indoor plumbing) and mistakenly went into the wrong house. The homeowner confronted him with a gun, shot him, then followed him outside and shot him at least three more times, while he was down. to me, that’s murder.
Another OT post and another opportunity for me to get back on my Canadian high horse and preach to you Americans.
We have much stricter hand gun control in Canada than in the USA. Consequently we have a proportionally lower per capita homicide rate, as does every country that has resticted hand gun laws. So the arguement “guns don’t kill, people do” holds no water IMO. The statistics speak for themselves.
Unfortunately our criminals can easily import illegal guns from the states and we’re seeing a rise of gun related homicides in the Toronto area as of late.
Our federal government has made a ridiculous blunder with their national gun registry program. It was designed to register every gun in Canada, hobbiests, collectors and even the farmer with a shotgun above his chicken. So far this insane project has wasted two billion dollars of taxpayers money and has done nothing to prevent the rise of illegal guns - as if our feds expected criminals to register their guns in the program. Rather than admitting they’ve made a huge gaff, the feds are trying to save face and are still continuing with this shameful waste of taxpayer money.
Despite this, the Canadian situation with strict hand gun laws is preferable to the US situation IMO.
I think many Americans would also like to see at least some form of hand gun controls in their country. Personally I doubt if it likely to happen because too many American politicians and bought and paid for by the NRA.
While I agree I also think things would be a bit different if people knew that every household owned and knew how to operate a handgun. Granted I don’t believe in stirring people in the correct direction by using fear…
Recently this poor fellow was on a group ride in his aerobars. The group slowed for traffic, he couldn’t get to his brakes quick enough & caused a massive pileup injuring many riders. Obviously we should ban aerobars. P.S., The poor victim is now sueing the aerobar manufacturer. His atty is being paid for by towns who are tired of seeing spandex clad hordes clogging their streets. Hope your happy your tax dollars are being used to put the aerobar industry out of business.
P.S., If your afraid of getting shot while stealing from your neighbors, just move to Canada. I’ll even help you pack & wave goodbye.
<<So the arguement “guns don’t kill, people do” holds no water IMO. The statistics speak for themselves. >>
Yes. The statistics speak clearly that automobiles are responsible for killing thousands upon thousands of lives each year. Automobiles should be outright banned! We have tried a progressive level of registration and licensing and regulation at all levels of government yet these killing machines manufactured solely for the profit of a corportation continue their wonton destruction of our society. The reason automobiles remain on the roads free to indescriminately kill is because of lobbies like the Automobile Associaton of America. If it were not for the AAA, we would have banned automobiles long ago. I dream of a day when society no longer has to live in fear of being mowed down by some four wheeled two ton killing machine.
AUTOMOBILES KILL!!! WHEN IS SOCIETY GOING TO GET THE MESSAGE??? WE MUST GET THESE EVIL DEVICES OFF OUR ROADS IF WE WANT TO BE SAFE!!! AUTOMOBILES ARE ONLY GOOD FOR KILLING INNOCENCT PEOPLE. THERE IS NO PROOF THAT ANYBODY NEEDS AN AUTOMOBILE TO SURVIVE.
Great post - I am with you. As you know I am also from Canada, and not sure about why American’s do what they do on the issue of firearms.
My view is more pragmatic - If you are not a hunter, a competitive biathlete or a historical gun collector, why or earth do you need a gun at all? The aformentioned people represent less than 5% of the population. So, why is it that siginificantly more people in the US and in Canada have guns?
I am curious of what American’s thought/think of Michael Moore’s “Bowling for Columbine” Doc. Moore is known for going over-the-top, but if even 50% of what he said/showed in the doc was true, it’s still a rather disturbing commentary.
Thanks to recent law changes, many more Michigan residents can now legally carry concealed handguns. Since the law went into effect, violent crime rates have gone down as they have in every other one of the 39 states that have made these concealed carry law changes. Does this mean that more guns equal less crime? Maybe. Maybe not. But clearly, more guns do not equal more crime. Americans own more guns now than ever before and violent crime rates are universally down from their peaks. Again, more guns does not equate to more violence.
The high homicide rate in the US is largely the result of the drug trade and gangs of the inner cities. Take those numbers out of the equation and leave the rest of us gun-toting bubbas alone with our gun collections and our homicide rate would be similar to the “more civilized” countries of the world where only criminals are allowed to own guns.
All that said, in general, defending property with deadly force is legally and morally wrong, unless somebody tries to steal my bike the day before a race.
Sorry southern neighbors, but I’m entitled to stay on my high horse over this one a little longer. Canadian per captita homicide stats are 1/3 of what they are in the US. It may not be the only reason, but I’ll rest my case that stricter hand gun control equals less murders. These stats aren’t lying:
<<Sorry southern neighbors, but I’m entitled to stay on my high horse over this one a little longer. Canadian per captita homicide stats are 1/3 of what they are in the US. It may not be the only reason, but I’ll rest my case that stricter hand gun control equals less murders. These stats aren’t lying: >>
So wait, Ceveloguy, are rates of firearm related violence (guns have wheels and a crew of three) going up or going down in Canada? I thought they were going up because of the Unites States’ permissive firearms laws (or lack there of) yet now you are claiming that Canadian laws are far more effective at reducing violence. Up or down? Thanks.
Car - to drive to work, to other places, my cottage up north and to triathlon races
Bicycle - to ride to work on nice days, to go for long rides with my friends
TV - I have one, but don’t have cable, so it does not get much use.
A Gun - ??? What would I need gun for in my life? I can’t think of any application or use. I don’t hunt, I am not a farmer, a competitive biathlete or a gun collector.
If you have a gun, why do you have one? Are you a hunter, farmer, competitive biathlete or a gun collector?
yes, I don’t believe you have a right to use deadly force to defend property. However, in this case, my understanding of the situation is that the homeowner confronted two thieves. One turned and pointed something at him. He fired, then chase the other person off of his property, firing into the air. While I don’t think this was the smartest thing to do, I think he cold sucessfully argue justification. It’s a bad place to be, but this is one example of what can happen when people feel they are not adequately protected by local law enforcement. I don’t think having concealed weapons helps and in answer to the argument that gun violence is down on those areas that sanction it, I don’t believe fear is an effective way of handling human interaction.
As usually happens in these OT posts, you’ve read something into my statement. I do not advocate using deadly force to protect property & my moral values are just fine thank you. Obviously both instances involved an illegal use of deadly force. I would however observe that the possibility of deadly force being applied is a strong detterent to a would be thief.
I hate OT posts at Slowtwitch in general, but got drawn into this one because someone cites a couple of instances of improper use of a handgun and advocates restricting a right I feel strongly about. As I expected, my moral values got attacked, my country got attacked etc. I can spend the next couple of days posting instances of handguns being used properly in caes of self defense, but I do not believe Slowtwitch is the proper forum for this.
Firearm related violence is on the rise in Canada, but this stat is being driven by gang- related violence in the large urban areas( Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver). If take those number out of the picture the fire-arm violence in Canada is quite low and only a small fraction of the number of deaths in the US.
It’s interseting to compare large boarder cities such as Detroit/Windsor. I am not sure of the exact numbers but I believe that there are typically less than 10 gun-shot deaths in Windsor, Canada each year and over 300 in Detroit, USA. The two cities are a 2 minute drive and a boarder crossing apart. Why the huge difference?
Good post Matt! While all human life should be valued, a criminal that gets iced while committing a crime is petty low on the value scale, maybe just above child/women abusers and terrorists. That said, I think that the pistol packing homeowner did his community a favor. He turned a miscreant thief into a corpse and probably did more to change the ways of the other rascal than any probation officer ever will. One can’t imagine the Christianizing effects of HydroShocks whizzing by your head!! Word will probably be amongst the criminal element to pick a new and safer target environment, maybe Canada?? Head north young man.
Why do you own a bike? Maybe because you enjoy riding it. Or maybe because you use it in your hobby of triathlon. A lot of people enjoy target shooting, which is also a hobby.
A lot of people own guns to protect themselves and their families in their own homes. Don’t break into my house and try to commit a crime and you don’t have to worry about getting shot. But if someone does I’m going to use everything I got to stop them.
Criminals will always have access to guns.
For all of you in the U.S. who are so “fed up” with our laws MOVE. Nobody’s making you stay. Stop the liberal complaining and whining, and get used to it because nothing is going to change.
Yes I did see the movie - It was very interesting.
What I found most interesting was that Michael Moore went deeper than just looking at the numbers of guns and the numbers of deaths when comparing the US and Canada and cities such as Detroit and Windsor or Toronto.
He looked at very controversial culturual differences bewteen the two countries, which I believe is a bigger driver than any law on the books than can or can’t control guns.
A couple of key points that Moore made and I may get into trouble here( better clean out my in-basket):
The US, historically is a violent nation
US news TV/Radio/print tends to lead ALWAYS with the most violent a gruesome crimes and it’s always local
Americans tend to live in fear, constantly, of something
These are Moore’s views, but having lived in Canada, and travelled extensivily in the US, I know where he is coming from on these points.