Anyone in sports marketing want to guess what is unfolding from the WTC?
Are they making a (obvious) play to really take over the sport and increase their footprint dramatically?
Any precedents? Bud Lite series? Xterra?
Why didn’t they brand 70.3 as Ironman? They own that so they could, I suppose they didn’t want to risk their core brand…
What would you do next? Start an Oly and Sprint distance insurance and RD support program (admin and sponsorship)? Start “rolling-up” smaller, regional RD’s…
Actually, they don’t own Ironman, marvel comics does. They licence it from them, as well as the M dot from someone else. They probably figure if they change the name they can save on a few royalties…
Not to mention that they can self annoint themselves a world championship race. So if anyone is interested in competing in the Reverse Order Triathlon World Championships this Saturday, be at my house about Sat 5:20ish am. We’ll start after I finish my morning Pepsi.
Desert Dude, see my IronTour LP thread. I have a free run bike swim training event on the Sunday July 3rd in Lake Placid. It is a 2 hour run - 60 mile bike and 1K swim.
Will you sanction this as an official event in your reverse order triathlon (or is it namnori…aka ironman backwards) world champs. Seriously though. Imagine running 26 miles, then biking 112 and then swimming 2.4. I doubt anyone would make it past 30 miles on the bike after hammering out a fresh marathon !
I would speculate that Kona slots will be available at the Ironman 70.3 World Championship race…
It also looks like they are trying to stick a dagger in Fred Sommers Great Floridian and 1/2 ironman distance races…scheduling races in the same state approx at the same time…
I have asked this repeatedly here, but NEVER received an answer. A number of years ago, the ITU and the WTC were at each other’s throats over the WTC’s use of the words “World Championship”, to describe the WTC’s centerpiece event held in Kona every year. There were law suites back and forth, but then all went quiet. Whatever became of this. Was IMH ever granted offcial World Championship status?( I doubt it) Why does the WTC continue to use the words “World Championship”, to describe the Kona event?
It will be much shorter than a namnori. Mainly b/c it will be 106 here on Sat. The is the crit option available though in the middle of the ride. prize money to boot (at the crit) and free Pepsi until I run out.
And then there is the U.S. Half Championship wherein all proceeds go to the Missouri Lions Eye Reseasrch Foundation – a good race for a great cause. Is it going to be swallowed up by the WTC/Ironman hydra?
Yeah, on the Stateside there are a few pretty decent races that are part of 70.3, but the qualifiers (White Lake, Auburn, Racine, Musselamn Timberman, Great Buckeye Duke Liver Center, Steelhead, Grand Columbian, and others - for the U.S.1/2 Championship are also pretty damn fine.
Finally, here is a new act in the morality play of M-dot vs. The Independents. I know what my heart says, and it’s now going to work very hard to convince my mind and wallet to get to Kansas City on September 25 and support by my presence Mark Livesay and his race. However, I’d be lying if I said that I had absolutely no interest in the “Ironman 70.3 World Championship”…but I just don’t like what this says about the current state of triathlon.
If I remember corectly, the courts ruled something along the lines that since the ironman was using the world championship in their title for that race before the ITU formed and since the ITU did not have a world championship contested over that distance WTC could use the title. I think it will be interesting to see if the ITU contests or not the use of the title world championships over the half distance. I think legally they are the only entity that can bestow that title on an event. Lew Kidder, Tom Z bart slowman and a few others might have a better memory for the particulars of what wnet down regarding that. I was but a kid then.
I have asked this repeatedly here, but NEVER received an answer. A number of years ago, the ITU and the WTC were at each other’s throats over the WTC’s use of the words “World Championship”, to describe the WTC’s centerpiece event held in Kona every year. There were law suites back and forth, but then all went quiet. Whatever became of this. Was IMH ever granted offcial World Championship status?( I doubt it) Why does the WTC continue to use the words “World Championship”, to describe the Kona event?
Fleck
Because it is the Ironman Triathlon World Championship.
Right, but you have put blinders on to the point of the posts between Fleck and myself, that there was a legal dispute over using the title World Championship to denote their race. That it is technically a self proclaimed world championship. Only the ITU can grant a “world championship” status to a race legally. That is the reason the ITU took the WTC to court. The courts ruled in favor of IMH due to their longstanding use of the name and the fact that the ITU did not put on a championship over the IM distance. If wtc tried to proclaim IMH as a world championship now, never having used the title before they would probably lose the court case because the ITU is the world governing body for the sport of triathlon.
I believe there will always be a strong role for the independents and the community based races such as ours that are part of US Half Championship series. I have also receive strong pleas to retain the Iron distance at The Grand columbian for the future to provide more of an individual iron alternative. If the 70.3 remains true to the IM marketing and race organizing formula you will get high quality formula races, very big urban fields, expensive locales, and big time corporate sponsorship presence. Tons of branding. WTC is going to make huge money of this venture. That works for many athletes obviously – even me up to a point. However at the Half Iron distance if you look at the non 70.3 offerings and especially the members of the US Half series, you’ll see very high quality races that each have a great community feel, support and the creative mark of the different independent RD’s. These individual races were not built with a marketing scheme in mind but usually because of the course, the community and an RD’s vision. Pacific Crest, Auburn, the Grand Columbian, Musselman would likely not have been created by IM because of out of the way location, lack of big urban markets and small communities. But each race offers exceptional courses and a unique feel. I believe the athletes thrive at these races. I don’t believe its going to be an “either/or” kind of racing environment…more likely a combination in a season of probably a couple of races from each series. I am fortunate because I am committed to keeping the Grand Columbian in the 650-700 participant range and built the model around the quality of the individual athlete experience. Likewise, I know people like Brad Kearns, Mark Livesely, Bill Burke, Joe Dixon (all right he’s Canadian but a hell of a nice guy), Jeff Henderson are truly committed to the athlete, the pure event and their races all reflect that personal commitment. Even on a level that you, the athletes don’t know. We all talk. share ideas etc. Some of the most generous guys in triathlon at helping each others races succeed. My biggest concern is whether the WTC IM 70.3 juggernaught will take out some high quality community based races such as they did with the Keonu Half. Time will tell and the athletes will make their choices.
"Actually, they don’t own Ironman, marvel comics does. They licence it from them, as well as the M dot from someone else. They probably figure if they change the name they can save on a few royalties… "
I don’t think that’s true, but if it is, then somebody at WTC needs to have their head examined for signing that license agreement. Marvel owns a federal TM registration for “Iron Man” for the use of toys and comic books, but not “Ironman” and certainly not for race productions. Same with the M-dot. WTC owns several federal registrations for the M-Dot. If they’re licensing it from someone who owns a registration for something other than the uses WTC uses it for, then they need a new licensing attorney at WTC, 'cause they’re paying licensing fees they don’t need to be paying.
"Actually, they don’t own Ironman, marvel comics does. They licence it from them, as well as the M dot from someone else. They probably figure if they change the name they can save on a few royalties… "
I don’t think that’s true, but if it is, then somebody at WTC needs to have their head examined for signing that license agreement. Marvel owns a federal TM registration for “Iron Man” for the use of toys and comic books, but not “Ironman” and certainly not for race productions. Same with the M-dot. WTC owns several federal registrations for the M-Dot. If they’re licensing it from someone who owns a registration for something other than the uses WTC uses it for, then they need a new licensing attorney at WTC, 'cause they’re paying licensing fees they don’t need to be paying.
See Dan’s article from a few years ago about the trademark…
I’m not sure what the law says… or who’s law would apply in this particular instance, but I don’t see any reason why WTC, or anyone else, can’t legally create a race and call it a “world championship” (barring any trademarked use of that phrase, of course).
ITU doesn’t have to sanction this race, but I don’t think they have the legal right to prevent someone from calling their race a “World Championship” just because they’re the international governing bidy of the sport.
I stand corrected as to the licensing… however, again… Marvel and Mistral may own registrations for particular uses of their marks, but it’s a mischaracterization to say they “own the trademark” for Ironman (or M-Dot). My guess is that these agreements were entered into in order to ensure there were no lawsuits by Marvel or Mistral, but judging from the differences between the marks, I’d say neither Marvel nor Mistral would have won those lawsuits. MAYBE Marvel, since the words are virtually identical… but again, I can’t imagine there would be an confusion between the use of Ironman for triathlon and Ironman for comic books or toys.
Indeed, we live in an open market economy, so time will tell, how this really unfolds.
My sense is that we may be near some form of tipping point with the sport. Perhaps, not right now, but say in the next couple of years. Participation is still rising, and that’s a good thing, but there are numerous barriers that new-comers will encounter, that may or may not turn them off the sport some time soon.
Barriers that I see right now:
Cost of equipment. I know that you can scrape by on the bare minimum, but there seems to be this burning “need” to constantly upgrade and have the latest and greatest. Much of these “upgrades”, really do nothing for you.
Cost of entry at big and small events. We are currently looking at $500+ for an IM event. Some don’t blink and eye at this, but for others, it’s starting to be a fall-off-the-chair number. How high will it go before, significant numbers say - “That’s too much for me”
The sport is getting more and more complex at all levels - equipment, rules, training strategies and lingo, race logistics and on and on. Again, for some/many, this is no big deal and they don’t bat an eye to it, but I have heard rumblings from sources that I trust, that say, we need to simply things and not make them more complex or else we will start to loose people.