Well, I just received two pairs of racing tires from MAXXIS. Anyway, I originally ordered one set for training and one for racing. The set for racing is the Xenith Equipe Legere… Looks like a sweet tire. max 145 psi and smooth slick design. The set I originally ordered for training was the Columbiere. It’s a slick too but with a subtle groove max 130 psi.
My question is this… Is there any situation where a grooved slick would be advantageous? I was under the impression that pure smooth slicks are ALWAYS better. I was only going to use it for training, but it looks like a really nice tire.
I thought I had read a prior thread where somebody had posted some emails from manufacturers stating the benefits of pure slicks in a pretty much all conditions… but I can’t seem to find it.
One could argue that with a slick, you have a lot more road contact surface, and with grooves, you get more water displacement when on wet roads. But beyond that, I admit that I could not tell you much more benefit of either design.
File tread designs are supposed to be great for the combination of the two. But I have noticed very little difference.
All I know is that you run slicks for almost all types of car racing for the contact patch, and treaded for the rain. Also, people who raced F1 did not like FIA mandating treaded tyres for all racing in F1.
That was my thinking too… Furthermore, I remember Lance talking at the end of the TTT last summer about how some of the teams chose the “wrong tires and were paying the price by slipping everywhere” (loosely quoting) That was a rainy team time trial
Thanks for posting that jens. Came as a huge surprise. When I raced cars and go-carts we always raced slicks in the dry and grooved in the wet. Always falsely assumed it would be the same for bicycles. I learned something new today.
I get a lot more slip than I would lick with a slick tire on wet days. I ride vitoria open corsa CX’s - the have this micro tread that seems to do the trick.
I am not shocked that slick is better in any case. Even though I had made the argument that grooves could be better in the rain, I had forgotten to make the argument that with such a small contact area for a bicycle tyre, any grooves in the tread are not likely to make much of a difference.
I imagine that any groove in the tyre could arguably make they tyre adhere to the road worse than better.
Who the hell wrote that article? What a crock. Slick tires are used by all street motorcycles in all conditions? Ummm…no.
I may not be able to speak to bicycle tires with authority, but after years of road-racing motorcycles I can tell you he is spewing un-truths. I’d like to know what references he used for his info. First- it is illegal to run slicks on street motorcycles anywhere other than a racetrack. Second, NO-ONE runs slick in the rain. Most club level guys will run a racing compound street tire (with grooves), but those who can afford it run HEAVILY grooved rain-tires. Smooth tire + wet racetrack = crashing.
Also, as a former (fairly recent) military pilot, I cannot recollect a smooth tire on any f/w training aircraft or helicopter I’ve ever flown.
This doesn’t necessarily mean the same applies to bicycle tires running 120+ psi, but the motorcycle and aircraft comparisons are simply not true.
Who the hell wrote that article? What a crock. Slick tires are used by all street motorcycles in all conditions? Ummm…no.
I may not be able to speak to bicycle tires with authority, but after years of road-racing motorcycles I can tell you he is spewing un-truths. I’d like to know what references he used for his info. First- it is illegal to run slicks on street motorcycles anywhere other than a racetrack. Second, NO-ONE runs slick in the rain. Most club level guys will run a racing compound street tire (with grooves), but those who can afford it run HEAVILY grooved rain-tires. Smooth tire + wet racetrack = crashing.
Also, as a former (fairly recent) military pilot, I cannot recollect a smooth tire on any f/w training aircraft or helicopter I’ve ever flown.
This doesn’t necessarily mean the same applies to bicycle tires running 120+ psi, but the motorcycle and aircraft comparisons are simply not true.
Chill, Top Gun. First, the quote was “Today, slicks are used in all weather by most street motorcycles”, not “all street motorcycles”. And I’m guessing that if there is tread on the tires, it is not particularly functional. Why is it illegal to run slick motorcycles on the road? Are you sure that it has to do with safety, and not merely a carryover from car tires, where tread does make a difference?
As for who wrote that article, look at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/. He may be the ultimate curmudgeon, but he knows his stuff. I think his work at HP involved disk drive technology, and he knows a lot about friction, lubrication, and things like that that have application in the world of bicycle tires.
Who the hell wrote that article? What a crock. Slick tires are used by all street motorcycles in all conditions? Ummm…no.
I may not be able to speak to bicycle tires with authority, but after years of road-racing motorcycles I can tell you he is spewing un-truths. I’d like to know what references he used for his info. First- it is illegal to run slicks on street motorcycles anywhere other than a racetrack. Second, NO-ONE runs slick in the rain. Most club level guys will run a racing compound street tire (with grooves), but those who can afford it run HEAVILY grooved rain-tires. Smooth tire + wet racetrack = crashing.
Also, as a former (fairly recent) military pilot, I cannot recollect a smooth tire on any f/w training aircraft or helicopter I’ve ever flown.
This doesn’t necessarily mean the same applies to bicycle tires running 120+ psi, but the motorcycle and aircraft comparisons are simply not true.
Chill, Top Gun. First, the quote was “Today, slicks are used in all weather by most street motorcycles”, not “all street motorcycles”. And I’m guessing that if there is tread on the tires, it is not particularly functional. Why is it illegal to run slick motorcycles on the road? Are you sure that it has to do with safety, and not merely a carryover from car tires, where tread does make a difference?
As for who wrote that article, look at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/. He may be the ultimate curmudgeon, but he knows his stuff. I think his work at HP involved disk drive technology, and he knows a lot about friction, lubrication, and things like that that have application in the world of bicycle tires.
He also worked on bicycle tires for Avocet and wrote the book “The Bicycle Wheel”.
There is no benefit to siping on a bicycle tire, in any conditions.
You are unquestionably wrong on this. Siping, grooves, etc. have extremely high value…
…to product managers searching for a way to differentiate their product from the competition. Commoditization is the enemy of high profit, and slick tires start to look like a commodity product.
What you really meant to say was “There is no PERFORMANCE value to siping on a bicycle tire, in any conditions.”
It’s about time we gave due credit to the value that poor unsung and maligned marketing managers add to the marketplace!
Chill, Top Gun. First, the quote was “Today, slicks are used in all weather by most street motorcycles”, not “all street motorcycles”. And I’m guessing that if there is tread on the tires, it is not particularly functional. Why is it illegal to run slick motorcycles on the road? Are you sure that it has to do with safety, and not merely a carryover from car tires, where tread does make a difference?
As for who wrote that article, look at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/. He may be the ultimate curmudgeon, but he knows his stuff. I think his work at HP involved disk drive technology, and he knows a lot about friction, lubrication, and things like that that have application in the world of bicycle tires.
It doesn’t matter who wrote it (I am very familiar with Mr. Brown), it is still completely false. Slicks are not used by any street-legal motorcycles in any conditions. Period. As for why DOT legal tires are required to have tread, you’d have to ask the DOT. I will tell you, anecdotally, slick tires on a wet racetrack are bad, and treaded tires are good.
Chill, Top Gun. First, the quote was “Today, slicks are used in all weather by most street motorcycles”, not “all street motorcycles”. And I’m guessing that if there is tread on the tires, it is not particularly functional. Why is it illegal to run slick motorcycles on the road? Are you sure that it has to do with safety, and not merely a carryover from car tires, where tread does make a difference?
As for who wrote that article, look at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/. He may be the ultimate curmudgeon, but he knows his stuff. I think his work at HP involved disk drive technology, and he knows a lot about friction, lubrication, and things like that that have application in the world of bicycle tires.
It doesn’t matter who wrote it (I am very familiar with Mr. Brown), it is still completely false. Slicks are not used by any street-legal motorcycles in any conditions. Period. As for why DOT legal tires are required to have tread, you’d have to ask the DOT. I will tell you, anecdotally, slick tires on a wet racetrack are bad, and treaded tires are good.
Congratulations on your familiarity with Sheldon Brown. Unfortunately, he didn’t write it: Jobst Brandt did.
Congratulations on your familiarity with Sheldon Brown. Unfortunately, he didn’t write it: Jobst Brandt did.
Like I said, it doesn’t matter who wrote it. It could have been handed down from Mt. Ararat- it’s still wrong.
I learnt some interesting stuff off a Victoria tyre rep recently…not sure its 100% accurate but it certainly changed some of my thinking.
He stated that a tire with a very fine tread is actually faster as in has lower rolling resistance than a complete slick. Apparently on smooth roads a slick sucks on and doesn’t realease as well. Apparently this “suction” dosen’t have a significant effect on traction but does increase rolling resistance. The “tread” required to break up this suction is very low and at first glance looks like a slick, on closer inspection it looks like a very fine file. Most high end Victoria tyres have this.
He also stated that although victoria do make some “winter” wet weather tires with more significant tread, grooves etc…this is purely for marketing. The best tire for traction in his opinion was practically a slick with just the very fine tread pattern talked about earlier.
From a physics perspective, the contact patch is so small on a bicycle tire that you have to go ~80mph to hydroplane. A motorcycle can do that so they need some tread, a cyclist won’t. Tires are always complicated though. Undergrad engineering will teach you that friction is independent of surface area…so why do race cars have wide tires?..Tire friction a very complex phenomenon…bottom line…before you apply book science listen to what actually is faster in tests. The Vittoria issue is a good example. Why would microtread make you faster? …Why does a 130psi tire go faster than a 190psi (this year at least…someone else will say different next year:))