GreatDane - Orang Utan ? Forks and stuff

Triathlon Forum
1

Dear forum members, Gerard and Dan.

I certainly created a stir here - if i offended Cervelo or anyone else - i apologize.

Apparently i do not have enough knowledge about bike politics, allthough i am leaning quite fast by now.

Here are the facts. :

I am not the guy(or girl) Orang Utan- . Ben in FL : you are wellcome to publice the IP trace and show who you think i am with my name and emailaddress - it cannot have compared with the other guy in any way. ??

My emailaddress is also included in my loginname so Dan allready knows it. However i do work for an American company in Europe.

Does your comment reg. spelling mean that my English grammer is good or bad ? ( have studied English in school for 7 years and hope that the time was well invested. )

Posting in the middle of the US night will happen as i live in Europe and write at 0900AM, which is night for US.

I saw the mentioning of the fork breakage on the national TV teletext news from Reuters. Subsecquently saw the CSC website where the story was posted on the front page in English. Ie. not a rumor but a publicly known fact - even made public on the web by the CSC official people/webmaster/company etc. and probably seen and commented on TV. However there was no more mentioning of the incident other that the fork was broken during a sprint and Julian Dean had to change bikes, i was curious and concerned - why ?.

I was not trying to be malicuos nor to hurt anyone, but honestly i do think that such failures should NOT be kept a secret either - especially when it has allready been publicly announced.

I have indeed considered a Cervelo for quite some time as i wrote, was especially interested in the new Team Sloist as i think it looks very cool and also the colours are identical with my triclub uniform colours. I wrote that i was impressed with Cervelo bikes and i praised Gerard for his earlier tread comments on manufactures who does not test equipment enough and continue to send unsafe equipment on the market.

I wrote in the post that the failure could off-course have happened as a result of damage during installation on the bike, ie. not company related and asked Gerard if he could tell what had actually happened.

I have also earlier read Francois comments on stem failures by the manufacturer DXXX ( don’t dare to mention the name) which apparently was ok for posting and was not attacked for hurting companies or whatever.

I was trying to reply to Francois and Carbon that i did not agree that equipment failure was something normal and that you should just expect it. Stem, fork, handlebar, frame failure could cost my life if happening during a high speed decent.

Francois wrote that the failure could have happened during transport, which is off-course correct. Likewise tried to write to Carbon that, yes, apparently the story on the CSC homepage was changed since the morning, i thought it was a co-incidence - untill i hit the post reply button and got : " the tread you are repling to does not exist" ! and saw that the tread was erased and also the CSC webpage has removed the entire story on the stage 2 on Tour of Qatar. Quite an impact i had on the WWW.

All i wanted was to get a response ( and i CERTAINLY did get a response ) from Gerard and some info on what had happened.

I own 4 high quality bikes myself at the moment. European as they are what you get here and much cheaper that “exotic” US/overseas bikes due customs and transport fees etc.

Maybe i should not have mentioned what i ride myself, nor say that i would rethink future purchases due to this ( but i honestly will make this decision for myself untill i get more information on what actually happened and assurance for myself that is not a general problem or a equipment recall case). I did not in any wording encourage others to stay away from the company. But off-course others are entitled to form their own opinion about the case ( at least that is allowed where i live ) and think what they may, as I do myself and make my personal decisions - sometimes intelligent choices, sometimes not so intelligent and more emotionally driven.

I have owned approx 20 high quality bikes during the last 6 years. I usually exchange bikes 2-3 times a year for no other reason that i like to try out new equipment and different brands. I pay for the bikes of my own money and sell the old ones to get some cash back. I write articles on bike equipment and fit on tribikes for a local triclub and i am an active triathlete myself - going to Ironman Austria this year.

The thing that scares me most when riding is the thought of a equipment failure when riding. I usually go for high quality and reliable equipment. I stay away from the lightweight and unproven stuff as the faliure rate is astounding as reported in the media (and also being a big,strong, 188cm/6ft 2", 84kg/185lbs in raceweight, 97kg/214lbs off-season, which sort-of neccesitates the search for bullitproof frames and equipment.

Tom D. will propably have seen the tests during the last years in the German magazine Tour, reporting breakage during test of carbonforks for several wellknown manufactures that could not endure even the lowest km/milage rating and was considered unsafe to ride by the magazine, likewise in the same magazine reporting failures on diff. stems and handlebars. ( don’t dare to mention the companies name ). I follow these reportings and it scares me.

Thank you ,Gerard, for your reply on the non-existing post - i think it sounds very assuring and i hope you find the problem not related to your equipment - please let us know.

Now - if i am un-wellcome in this forum i will politely go away again.

Best regards

GreatDane

PS: I am really very curiuos to hear what that IP trace actually shows.

2

you are quite welcome here, and you can say whatever you like as long as it isn’t for the sole purpose of creating mischief, as was the case with “orang.”

as readers can now see through yesterday’s set of posts, this is not a public forum in which anyone can say what they want. it’s a moderated forum. only the mischievious and harmful posts and users will be removed, and that happens about once every 20,000 posts or so. if it’s an unmoderated free-for-all you want, you’ll have to go somewhere else to get it.

high on my list of things you can’t do here (and my “list” of such things is very small) is write things that have as their sole or main purpose the harm or desctruction of a commercial enterprise associated with our sport. i’m not saying your intent was to do that, but i do believe the result of your post was along those lines.

i disagree with your characterization of your post. you thought it was innocent. i thought otherwise. if you simply wrote, “a cervelo fork broke during the sprint in the tour of qatar, and this concerns me. gerard, what happened here? please explain? and if anyone else on the forum has a view on this i’m all ears.” that would’ve been fine.

but when you say, “i was seriously considering a team soloist, but now i’ll stick to my european-made frames, which are safe,”–with the obvious meaning that cervelo frames are NOT safe–that seems to me to be an attack on the entire brand. your post suggests cavalier attitude toward safety on behalf of cervelo in particular and north american bikes in general, and that is not true, it is not substantiated, and in fact i can present evidence to you that suggests that, if anything, north american bike companies have a much more sophisticated (in general) set of safety standards than do the bikes made by european companies (tho i believe euro-made bikes are safe as well in general).

i was concerned not only about your post, but about what would’ve very definitely turned into an angry set of back-and-forth posts which would’ve been based on no facts whatsoever, but which would’ve had a theme i’m not comfortable with.

so, here it is: if you or anyone else want to discuss frame engineering and safety, fine, no problem. have at it. say what you want. if you want to make unsubstantiated innuendo about the ability of a frame or wheel or component company to make a safe product, your post will get yanked if you’re lucky, and if you’re less lucky i’ll embarrass you with a reply that will take you to task with the facts. for such people who write posts of that nature (and i’m not at this point suggesting you’re one of them) i’ll also ask you to be a man and make your real name and email address and contact information public, just like i have.

perhaps one good thing might come of this. i am prepared to back up the claim i made above about the safety of north american made bikes. there are other cases tho–and i’m thinking of syntace’s stem testing and Tour Magazine’s (Germany) contracted testing–where europe is ahead of america. i think it might be instructive to present a set of articles that speaks directly to this point: how testing is done, who’s doing the best testing, and in which categories. great dane is certainly correct that above and beyond anything else it’s imperitive that the bike you’re riding be safe.

yes, you’re very welcome here. please continue to read and post.

3

Thanks for posting and setting us strait. I agree with you completely that your original post was not at all or in any way intended to be malicious and for whatever reason, Dan completely over reacted.

Although your first experience here has not been a pleasant one, please do stick around.

BTW, I assume that you’re in Denmark?

4

Dan completely over reacted.

You are having a hard time dropping this and moving on it seems…possibly a little over reacting?!

david

5

I’m fascinated by your need to insert the apology for Dan.

6

I just have to support my danish friend: Not everybody who spells like an Orang Utan is one!

We´re from Denmark, usually spelling danish and therefor less familiar to english, especially not US grammatics. So don´t put us all in the same cup, just because we write like small children :slight_smile:

Regarding the Cervelo-stuff : I really don´t see that much of a problem in GreatDanes original post. Maybe in the US where obese people sew McD you´re in risk of a trial when you ask questions regarding safety issues - in Denmark we like to discuss the facts and make up our own oppinion. If I ever hear that something breaks on a Moots - be sure to see me posting on their forum to get an explanation and regain the love of my Vamoots and YBB.

Anyway, great forum here on slowtwitch. I visit it every “night”.

Regards

Martin

7

I’ve been to Denmark three times. Love the country and the people. Glad to see you guys posting here.

8

Actually there is a lot of danes following this site, but not joining actively. I was on the old forum once or twice as are many i know but now you have to sign-up also ! YES i am lazy.

I have only just signed in today as there was a question about the bikebrand i ride (Look KG386) and i wanted to show my opinion of it.

Danes are know for starting a good argument. I guess that GreatDane succeded nicely in this department.

9

To change topic, how well known are Cervelo bicycles in Denmark since the CSC affiliation. Are there a lot of dealerships in your part of the world? Are people buying many of them?

10

In Reply To Dan completely over reacted.

In Reply to

You are having a hard time dropping this and moving on it seems…possibly a little over reacting?!

David

One man’s obstanance is another man’s conviction.

Joe Moya

11

Well, i have never seen one on the road myself. But there should be one or two out there. Untill recently the import was handled by a really small webbased, basement-bikeshop in Thisted, Jutland, which is a very remote location in Denmark. They claim to have sold some Cerveloes on their website. Never seen one at a Triathlon yet.

After CSC started using them interest has risen but no shops in Copenhagen (capitol and larges city with approx 1 milllion people out of a total 5 mil) has them yet as far as i know. It seems that the LBS “Roadbikeshop” will import and sell them but not stock frames, only take them home upon a actual order.

12

ironically, people who follow what i write over time might know that i keep a close watch on the danes. we’ve extolled the virtues of (former) national coach gabor kloczl, and we interviewed rasmus henning on slowtwitch a couple of years ago, before very many people knew who he was.

i went out of my way to track down torbjorn sinballe at half-IM california last year, and spent a fair bit of time talking to him. he and rasmus are two of my favorite triathletes, and i’m pulling for them in every race they do.

i VERY much want to go to copenhagen and see the scene firsthand there, the big group rides on the weekends, and to see what sinballe, henning, peter sandvang and lisbeth kristenson are doing.

i’m further intrigued by the fact that the danish federation is actually one of the few–maybe the only–national federations putting its money into long course racing (hear that USAT?) instead of focusing SOLELY on short course racing, which is a crime (hear that USAT?). as a result, danish triathletes have some huge percentage of the total world championship medals won in all of denmark, counting ALL sports of EVERY type (hear that USAT?).

in other words, we love danes here on slowtwitch.

13

“One man’s obstanance is another man’s conviction.”

Here’s my very last $.02 on this issue. I don’t mind being slammed for my opinions by those who read the original post, but I am under the impression that most of those doing so did not see the original post. That’s not their fault as it was removed fairly quickly. To my mind Great Dane said nothing derogatory that in any way warranted being singled out in this manner. If you were able to read the original post and disagree with me then that’s fine, but unfortunately most of you weren’t. If you reread the messages you’ll note that the majority of those who did see the post tended to be in agreement with me as to the lack of a malicious tone in the the original message. Realize the Great Dane is not writing in his native language so perhaps there could have been some misinterpretation. When he said he would probably buy a European bike because of the Soloist fork failure that wasn’t a slander of apple pie, motherhood and the great American way. He just happens to be European and has more familiarity/availability with European bikes than with Cervelo(which BTW, like me, is Canadian).

I admit I jumped on Dan’s head for this, so perhaps I do him an apology for calling his censorship “Nazi like” and “totalitarian”. I admit his was rather melodramatic. So Dan I do apologize sincerely and publically for my over reaction but do still feel that you over reacted to the original post.

Now let’s put this to bed.

14

“I admit his was rather melodramatic”

My apology. That was a typo. It meant to say “I admit this was rather melodramatic”

15

“That was a typo. It meant to say ‘I admit this was rather melodramatic’”

well, maybe “his” (mine) was melodramatic too.

don’t worry about it. yesterday’s thread didn’t rise to the level of anything deserving of concern, at least for me. i was a bit under the weather yesterday, and THAT rose to the level of concern, since i’m in the middle of a fairly intense training regimen right now and don’t want to miss any of it. maybe that accounts in part for your/this/his/my melodrama.

16

Well let’s shake hands and forget about it. I’m looking forward to meeting you when I(eventually) take your FIST course.

Greg

17

Hi Dan

Thank´s for all the nice words about us danes. Unfortunately we have some major problems with the danish triathlon federation and their favorisation of the olympic draftlegal distance, which actually caused Gabor to withdraw from his job as a national coach. So everything isn´t glamour in little Denmark, but at least we got our medals troughout the last five years!

Regards

Martin