Fair enough, and I agree with the argument as you’ve now stated it, which I think is more moderate than the line you took in the thread initially.
It does still leave open the issue on the borderlines though: e.g., a high school senior with scholastic aptitude in the 95th percentile of the applicant class who also could also play D1 varsity sports, versus a high school senior in the 98th percentile with no althletic skills to offer. Is it an outrage if the 95/varsity kid gets a scholarship and the 98 percentile kid does not? I see tension there and can see the unfairness of it in one sense, but I’m not sure I would scream and pound the desk if that were the result either.
And I think in all honesty you see more scholarships awarded in the spirit of the original intent in the other sports (not football, basketball, or baseball). Where the average student athlete is a good student as well and would likely attend regardless of athletic performance, but maybe it was a second factor. My Tennis scholarship to VMI was offered after I had already told them I was seriously considering VA Tech, but hadn’t committed yet. It was mentioned earlier in my application process but offered well after I was accepted.
These borderline cases are a bit different than what I had in mind. I was referring to those who shouldn’t be in college first place, or who get all paid
for because they’re good at sport, without necessarily being outstanding academically.
What you describe is common…happens…at some stage, some decision needs to be made…a bit more of this, a bit less of that, but on paper they’re remarkably similar.
We get this a lot with med school students actually. But first we want a high GPA, and a high MCAT…after we can look at the rest.
And I think in all honesty you see more scholarships awarded in the spirit of the original intent in the other sports (not football, basketball, or baseball). Where the average student athlete is a good student as well and would likely attend regardless of athletic performance, but maybe it was a second factor. My Tennis scholarship to VMI was offered after I had already told them I was seriously considering VA Tech, but hadn’t committed yet. It was mentioned earlier in my application process but offered well after I was accepted.
I’d agree with this. You also see the same thing with respect to music scholarships. Hell, you even see this with bowling scholarships.
Right on, and entirely in line with what I saw both in terms of ludicrous scholarships given to the jocks at the D1 state school I attended for undergrad, as well as the glut of qualified applicants vying for spots/scholarships in law school where excellent academic records were just the starting point.
His brother to. His brother while our starting QB tried to use Michael Vick’s id to get into a bar. Everybody knew who his bro was and everybody knew who he was, the dumbest act I have ever seen.
then why not let in Oboists with bad SAT scores the same way we do football players?
There are any number of schools, particularly the HBCs, where being a kick-ass marching band type can get you preferred admission status or some extra scholarship money.
yes, and that is great, but this is a thread where we complain about division 1 schools letting michael vicks be ‘students’ for free, not a thread where we congratulate the school that give oboe scholarships.
also I used oboe as a real example because the link I provided compared oboists to football players to see if you can be as much of a moron as an oboe player and still get in (you can’t)
then why not let in Oboists with bad SAT scores the same way we do football players?
There are any number of schools, particularly the HBCs, where being a kick-ass marching band type can get you preferred admission status or some extra scholarship money.
The existence of athletes who are excellent students is a fact.
This does not change the fact that division 1 schools let in complete non-students so they can win games. This is common. Me stating this fact is not an attack on athletes, it is an attack on the system allowing people to attend a school that aren’t cut out for that school.
Have you attended a division 1 school lately?
Do you know where the athletic scholarships for excellent students come from? From the morons winning games. Without the football (and/or basketball) teams, filled with non-college material, there’s no money for lacrosse, volleball, golf, etc.
I don’t support having ‘student-athletes’ show up for a year on the way to the pros. Or telling them their college material so they’ll play ball. But they do produce for the smart kids.
Do you know where the athletic scholarships for excellent students come from? From the morons winning games. Without the football (and/or basketball) teams, filled with non-college material, there’s no money for lacrosse, volleball, golf, etc.
Not all Division 1 schools are created equal. The top 50 or so bowl level D1 schools generally run anything from a slight to a big ginormous budget surplus with their football programs.
But get beyond that, and football is frequently a giant sucking vortex of red that runs a huge deficit on a regular basis. If a school has a direction in its name, then there’s a 90% chance that you could fund an entire men’s wrestling team (and in some cases golf and tennis as well) over what the football team lost last season.
sure, but there’s also the fact that many donations are due to football or basketball programs (I’m not sure how donations factor into AD budgets), so that in many cases, the ‘losses’ for these programs may very well be comparable to ‘advertising’ for the AD/university.
There must be a compelling reason to fund 120 D1-A football programs (as well as numerous D1-AA and lower). And I’d venture that dropping football doesn’t simply save the money that the team would lose. More likely, the wrestling, volleyball, and golf would get thrown out as well.
Though wrestling would probably stay if football went. Right now, football tends to throw Title IX gender ratios way out of whack, and it’s easier and cheaper to cut other men’s teams like wrestling, swimming (Cough UCLA cough), and track in order to get the percentages right than it is to add a bunch of women’s sports.
Men’s basketball is the true cash cow in terms of D1 sports, and everyone knows it. Small rosters give you a lot of bang for your buck when you’re selling 10K+ seats per game, and there’s an offsetting women’s team for Title IX compliance purposes. Look at how many more men’s D1 teams there are for basketball (and how smaller athletics resources schools like Cincy and Georgetown are competitive ) than there are bowl division football teams.
i think tertiary education (in north america, at least) has some serious identity issues to sort out in the coming years. chief among them is the central question of what exactly we think universities are FOR. if they’re supposed to be profit-generating businesses, florida’s decision makes sense. athletic teams earn more cash for universities than teaching undergrads does, generally. but if we think universities are for something else, we need to make a different set of decisions.
sure, but there’s also the fact that many donations are due to football or basketball programs (I’m not sure how donations factor into AD budgets), so that in many cases, the ‘losses’ for these programs may very well be comparable to ‘advertising’ for the AD/university.
There must be a compelling reason to fund 120 D1-A football programs (as well as numerous D1-AA and lower). And I’d venture that dropping football doesn’t simply save the money that the team would lose. More likely, the wrestling, volleyball, and golf would get thrown out as well.
Those donations tend to go to football and football related scholarships/bursaries/football related endowments.
I can only speak from my experience at one Canadian University. The football program sucks a HUGE amount of money out of the overall Athletics budget. It is an obscene amount. And the other teams suffer because of it. And our team is horrible as well. We would be much better off sinking that money into other areas. Of course we are much different than a top Div1 school.
