It’s like changing the name Memorial Day to “Holiday” because someone doesn’t believe in war.
And while we’re at it, let’s get rid of the term “holiday.” Clear religious connotations.
I got it! They have been making all the new bills colorful anyway so we should just make it rainbow currency, that would be fabulous;)
You mean trying to bring “moral clarity to the masses” according to Christian values. I have no problem with the “in god we trust” on money I just think it’s pointless. The “God Bless America” just comes off as arrogant to me, like a football team praying for God’s help before a game, why do it? the other team is doing the same and what has this country done to be so deserving of such a blessing?
The thing that really really ticks me off is this belief, by those that believe biblical studies are neccesary in school, that moral values can only be extolled through teaching Christian values. I am not religous, never have been, but would consider myself a moral person, society and home life determine moral values much more then some book written over a thousand years filled with a bunch of stories supposedly teaching values. Why not read Aesop’s Fables every Sunday it’s the same stuff.
That said I have no problem with people praying in school if they do it on their own time and it isn’t required, but why this feeling that it has to be shoved down everyone’s throat, not everyone is religous and not everyone is Christian, deal with it. This isn’t the 1600’s anymore, America has evolved in more then simply a “Judeo Christian” society.
(Before anyone gets mad at me for sounding like I’m trying to flame someone I’m not, especially you Armytriguy, I think this was a good topic, I just wanted to get my thoughts on the subject out there, so I’m not directing this probably pointless rant directly at you.) Thanks
You just came upon the next obstacle. For all those of you who wish to change the currency, what do we change it to?
The rainbow would be offensive to many because it is seen as supporting the gay lifestyle.
Do we remove George Washington and Thomas jefferson because they were slave owners? Unfortunately, we have reached the point in this country where someone is offended by anything that is said or written.
I just can’t understand either the hubris of people who think that an all-powerful entity gives a rat’s ass about the brief tenure of our country on this planet, or the contradictory stance of thinking that such an entity needs an entreaty for beneficence.
Ken, on this issue I am more aligned with your thoughts then most Christians. I personally feel that God is not all that concerned with “earthly worries” outside of “loyalty”. Therein lies the problem with Faith and most people. IMO, people are mostly concerned with Earthly things. God is mostly concerned with heavenly/spritual things. Granted, I admittingly cannot speak with authority on the involvement of God in people’s daily life. I would like to think that God is directing my every move, but that goes against the free will and choice of actions that Bible speaks of. I don’t necessarily believe that God is “behind” everything that happens. I feel God allows things to happen in his promise to give us the choice to choose (i.e., freedom).
Kinda going off topic … but people always ask me “How can God let 2/3’s of the world starve?” IMO, God doesn’t … God’s believers are. If people of faith followed the teaching of Christ, there wouldn’t be many hungry people today. Like the song says, “If we are the Body of Christ, why aren’t his feet moving, his hands healing, etc”. God isn’t letting people down, people (i.e., believers) are letting God down. We are not showing Glory to God in our daily lives.
"Do you feel offended when you sneeze and someone says God Bless You?
Maybe, for the politically correct crowd, we should say, “no higher power bless you”:)"
Why should they say anything at all? They don’t ask for blessing when people cough, burp, or fart, so what is it about sneezing that compells people to ask for a blessing from god?
Don
Because your soul can escape out your nose when you sneeze…
"Do you think we should redesign our entire currency? "
Our entire currency has been redesigned. Perhaps since the god lovers have had their way for many years it is time for non believers to have a few years and new currency can proclaim, “There Is No God”. I’m sure you won’t mind.
Don
Why should they say anything at all? They don’t ask for blessing when people cough, burp, or fart, so what is it about sneezing that compells people to ask for a blessing from god?
I never would have imagined, at any point in my life, having this discussion. Awesome. Next time someone farts, I’m going to say “God Bless You” or “Gensundheit” (or whatever the German word for “to your health” is). I just wanna see the look on their face.
“Wow, I didn’t know people got so fired up the reference to God. I understand prayer in school, but getting bent because the word God is on our currency or the President says God bless America?”
As an atheist I know I’m a minority in this country. As such I’ve learned to accept various references to god. I don’t get all bent because of it, but I don’t agree with either. It isn’t a major issue for me and I sure don’t lose any sleep over this topic. I just don’t think references to god belong on our currency, in our pledge, or espoused by our government in any manner. I don’t see where having god on our money enhances the value. The pledge didn’t originally include a reference to god either. Why is it necessary to have these kind of references? Is having these references something that makes people think that god blesses America?
Don
“I never would have imagined, at any point in my life, having this discussion. Awesome. Next time someone farts, I’m going to say “God Bless You” or “Gensundheit” (or whatever the German word for “to your health” is). I just wanna see the look on their face.”
Why do you feel the need to say anything at all?
Don
Why do you feel the need to say anything at all?
This gets stupider and stupider.
Because it’s considered polite to do so in the society in which we live, no matter how unscientific the origin of the custom? Get a grip, already.
“For all those of you who wish to change the currency, what do we change it to?”
What’s so terribly wrong with simply removing the reference to god and leaving the rest as is?
Don
Goose, no offense taken. I am glad this thread has attracted alot of attention. I really am interested in all points of view.
"This gets stupider and stupider.
Because it’s considered polite to do so in the society in which we live, no matter how unscientific the origin of the custom?"
I see. So people should feel compelled to do stupid things simply because it’s considered polite. Maybe that’s how the whole god thing started. Perhaps thousands of years ago somebody “invented” god and others within that society were too polite to tell this person how stupid he was. I don’t know how true it is, but I seem to recall reading that if a lie is told often enough and with conviction, people will begin to see it as truth. Of course not everyone will believe it, but there will be some believers.
I also recall hearing the following: You can fool some of the people all of the time; you can fool all of the people some of the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. In my opinion religious believers fall into the part about some of the people being fooled all of the time.
Don
So people should feel compelled to do stupid things simply because it’s considered polite. Maybe that’s how the whole god thing started. Perhaps thousands of years ago somebody “invented” god and others within that society were too polite to tell this person how stupid he was. I don’t know how true it is, but I seem to recall reading that if a lie is told often enough and with conviction, people will begin to see it as truth.
Is it impolite to say that you’re really, really overthinking the whole sneezing thing?
In my opinion religious believers fall into the part about some of the people being fooled all of the time.
Perhaps. We’ll all find out soon enough, I guess.
Can’t you just write some of it off to tradition and heritage and let it go?
Funny you should mention. “Tradition and heritage” dictate that the words “under God” should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. The Pledge was written in 1892, and was almost exactly like it is today, except the words “under god” were not part of it. They were added in 1954. http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm So, based on the argument of maintaining “tradition,” I’m sure you’ll agree that “under god” doesn’t belong in the Pledge. Right?
Well, I would think that “tradition” is more about honoring the original way - which in this case, does not include the words “under god.” the Pledge was like that for 62 years, before McCarthyism reared its ugly head and resulted in modification of the Pledge. And, if you go to the page I referenced, it states that the person who wrote The Pledge would be offended by the addition of those words (so says his granddaughter). “Under god” has been a part of the Pledge for less time, 50 years.
The USA is the most free nation on this planet…be happy that many of you live here.
That’s such a cop out, people always bring that up whenever they can’t find a reason why we should have something like “in god we trust” on our money. There are a lot of nations whose freedoms meet or exceed those of the United States, and most of them are much more secular.
“As ridiculous as the custom is it’s even more ridiculous that you make an issue of it.”
Sure it’s ridiculous. But no more so than the whole notion of some omnipotent being.
Interesting that we’re now in the Christmas season. A huge number of people believe in a mythical being with vast powers - Santa Clause. But then they grow up and realize it’s all just a story. However, many of these same people refuse to grow up and instead choose to go on believing the story of an omnipotent being. As I mentioned in an earlier message, if something is repeated often enough with conviction it can be accepted as truth whether it is or not.
I’m sure hoping this is the year Santa will be bringing me that sweet new tri bike I’ve been wanting because I know it won’t get here any other way.
Don