I am a D1 collegiate runner with PRs of 3:59 1500, 8:26 indoor 3000, 9:09 3k steeple, 14:50 5k, and 24:26 8k cross currently running 100miles/week. I am red shirting this outdoor season and I want to use this opportunity to train a bit for an Olympic triathlon as I am really interested in training pretty hard for some triathlons after college. I did a couple of sprints in high school and I really liked them. I’m thinking splits of 26-28, 65, and 33-35 minutes for swim, bike and run are attainable. I have a few questions for preparing.
I ride a 2007 Trek 1500 SLR and with SPDs and mountain biking shoes. With run training I rarely make time for bike rides, so when I have some time off I have done some 20-25 mile rides with that set up at 21-22 mph on a fairly flat course at 7,000ft a few times. I think after putting in some more miles, I will be prepared to go under 65 in a race. I am interested in getting some aero bars and maybe converting to road shoes/pedals, but no tri bike. Any suggestions on comfortable aerobars that are reasonably priced? I am really considering ebay. I think I will just go to a bike store and have them help me with the shoe/pedal set up. Are 20-30 mile rides a few times a week sufficient, or do I need to put in some 2.5-3 hour rides?
I run and bike with my Garmin 405 with heart rate monitor. In races, do most people scrap the GPS and just use a standard timex and bike computer? I don’t think the 405 will fair well in the water and it seems like one more thing to worry about in T1. I’ve seen some discounted computers on nashbar with cadence that I think I will get for the bike.
I think swimming is my weakest area. I think I have swam 2 miles a couple times cross training, but have never done any workouts. In the past, I have swam a 15 minute half mile after swimming like 2 miles a week for a couple weeks (that was at sea level). How much swimming would you recommend to get to that 26 minute 1500m mark? Should I start out like running and just worry about getting in the pool and getting some mileage in for the first few weeks? or do I jump into workouts?
My race plans are to do the Ventura Breath of Life at the end of June. This should be far enough out from the end of my short outdoor season (April 25) and early enough in my summer that it doesn’t affect my run training too much for track/cross. I guess I’ll rent a wetsuit and I was thinking of just wearing some half tights under… don’t know if I like the idea of running with some padding between my legs like the tri shorts I have heard about.
Do any of my plans seem farfethced? Does weekly volume of 75 miles running, 8 miles swimming, and 80 miles biking sound completely off?
that’s plenty of volume for someone with your talent. I’m old and not nearly that talented, and I’ve come close to 2:10 on a little less volume than that.
On the swim, go get some instruction. Bribe the assistant swim coach or something. You want to avoid ingraining bad habits early on in your swimming “career”. Just focus on technique and get comfortable in the water the first few weeks.
On the bike, are you just hopping on and riding kinda hard the entire ride? That’s what most of us do just starting out. You should start doing one workout a week where you do intervals HARD for a combined time of 20-40 minutes. Working up to 2x20 hard with just a couple of minutes recovery.
I am a D1 collegiate runner with PRs of 3:59 1500, 8:26 indoor 3000, 9:09 3k steeple, 14:50 5k, and 24:26 8k cross currently running 100miles/week. I am red shirting this outdoor season and I want to use this opportunity to train a bit for an Olympic triathlon as I am really interested in training pretty hard for some triathlons after college. I did a couple of sprints in high school and I really liked them. I’m thinking splits of 26-28, 65, and 33-35 minutes for swim, bike and run are attainable. I have a few questions for preparing.
Have you talked with your coach? Are you redshirting for injury, or just for the extra eligibility year? Either way, you might want to look at your scholarship stuff, it may prevent that, and/or the redshirting rules may prevent it. It’s been a long time since I had to read them, but never hurts to check.
My Ironman training volume isn’t much more than that so I think it should be adequate. I would drop your run milage (30 or 40 miles) and up your bike milage (100 to 120) and really focus on the swim.
Definitely do some open water swims. Breath of Life is a really fast bike/run course, but weak swimmers might have trouble with the break depending on how it is that day. Buy a wetsuit if you don’t have one already, and practice your ocean swimming. Just working on your ins/outs and sighting will probably get you to the finish line a couple minutes faster. Don’t forget to practice your transitions, too – this is an area where it’s easy for new triathletes to lose a lot of time.
Best of luck to you. I raced my Olympic PR at Strawberry Fields last year, which is basically the same course.
Jason,
Glad to hear that you are interested in tris. After you have checked with your coach on scholarship stuff, I would find a masters swim group, a swim coach or find someone that was a collegiate swimmer to help you. Make sure that you have good shoulder stability before you let it rip by doing alot of rotator cuff exercises as “prehab” so you dont end up with shoulder inpingment. I would agree with everyone else that you need to focus on this with good instruction to avoid that bad habbits. You really can’t just wing this one. I did and it was a big mistake and It has taken alot of work to get things straight (i’m still working on it). The nice thing is that swim training will not have any impact on your run strength, unlike the bike(initially). Buy the wetsuit, and do some openwater swims as suggested. I got fast in the pool but it didn’t translate because I kept getting off course.
As far as the bike, which I coach, You really only need three quality sessions per week. I do more only because my strength is the bike and I want to be competetive in bike races as well. Keep your run strength your strength. Your scholarship will thank you later. You will need to reduce your volume to around 70miles from your current level as someone suggested to avaid overtraining.
To be able to run as quick as you do you probably have fairly slender legs. If you do; you will be much more powerfull turning a higher cadence on the bike and relying on your heart and lungs as opposed to your legs. Training at lower RPMs may slow you a bit on the run by adding muscle mass. One way to manage this is to spend the vast majority of your time well above 90rpms, closer to your stride rate on the run while on the track doing the 800-1500. This will reduce the ammount of force required per pedal stroke for a given power output, and it will improve your coordination and thus efficiency. Treat this as over speed training for your run without the impact. Make sure that you have the gearing so you can spin at this rate in strong headwinds and steep hills. If you don’t have the gearing invest in it. I know here in Albuquerque the winds will just rip and a false flat that you usually are capable of riding at 15-18mph can reduce you to 7mph.
Also invest in a proper bike fit from someone who has extensive experience fitting for the time trial position, most bike shops do not. They are usually great at both mountain and road fitting, but not the TT position. This is very important. The last thing that you want during your redshirt year is an overuse injury from biking (or swimming for that matter).
As far as training sessions; make sure you have a foundation of at least a month of tempo riding to allow the connective tissue time to adapt to the new loads that you are placing on it. Once that is established think of your most important workouts that you do on the run (duration) and mimic them on the bike; ie 400s become your 1min efforts, mile reps become 4-5min VO2 sessions on the bike, Tempo (Lactate) runs become 2x20s on the bike (as someone already suggested), and a longer ride (2hrs is plenty for your initial goals). Hope that helps.
Just out of curiosity where are you at? Flagstaff? Colorado? There are not too many places that have schools at 7000’.
Seth Wilkie
Physical Therapy Student - University of New Mexico
Master Personal Trainer
I’ve got no where near your talent and I’m going to try to go about 2:05 at Memphis in May, which I feel will be challenging, but attainable. If you can make it out there I would do it, its a PR course for sure
I’ve got no where near your talent and I’m going to try to go about 2:05 at Memphis in May, which I feel will be challenging, but attainable. If you can make it out there I would do it, its a PR course for sure
Just an FYI 2:05 at memphis in may is more like 2:12-2:15 depending on what your splits look like. THe bike is over two miles short and the swim is at least 200 short.
A good pair of Tri shorts are about 50-60 bucks and the pad isn’t that big of a deal for running, even if you’re pacing sub 5 miles. I’ve tried riding in half tights, Nike and Under Armor, and its miserable and will cost your bike split cus you’ll be standing so much. Training for swimming is a bit different than running because its non impact. Your body will be able to handle multiple medium distance high intensity sets in one practice and try to stay away from long slow swimming, it just gives you long slow form. Be careful balancing tri training with D1 running, it ruined my legs a couple years ago.
Does weekly volume of 75 miles running, 8 miles swimming, and 80 miles biking sound completely off?
I would change the ratios more in line with the race ratios. You are high on running and low on the bike but maybe you are trying to stay in running shape. I was listening to Competitor radio interview with the USAT training camp guys and they were all about 50 mi. for run, 20,000 yds swim, 10-12 hours bike.
So, sub-15 for a 5K is definitely worthwhile. Luckily, you have the fitness to jump on a bike and rock it. I would suggest going out right now and buying a decent pair of clip-on aerobars. It’ll save you about 3-4 minutes, as is. If you are serious about this, work on your bike fit. If you’re red-shirting, back off your mileages slightly and throw in a lot more cycling, if that’s your weak point. There’s a LOT of time to be saved on the bike, and since you already have the run part down, this will be the easiest way to cut time.
Don’t worry about MTB shoes/clips. Doesn’t really matter, as long as they work with your feet. Depending on how much time you have, I would expect a 2-3 hour ride once a week, plus 3 more days during the week. This might be heavy, but we’re trying to get your fast on the bike.
“If you’re red-shirting, back off your mileages slightly and throw in a lot more cycling, if that’s your weak point”
Careful with this. He is a D1 runner and he would hit his goal pace (23mph) just by putting on the bars and getting a good position. An aero helmet would ensure that with no time or energy spent with a huge increase in energy. Your right. His time spent on the bike would net some big gains, but he may lose a lot on the run as a consequence.
He needs to be comfortable and ecconomical on the bike and use his strength, the run, and train his real weakness… the swim (he stated this). Too many miles may be detrimantal to his run speed since he is relatively new to cycling and he is using running for his education. This is just a fun diversion, even though he stated that he is more interested in persuing it after school is done. You can teach just about anyone to ride fast, but swimming fast has a huge learning curve and it won’t be detrimental to his running.
Imagine if by the time he is done with school he can swim a 18-20min 1500m with a lot of coaching and practice. He would be knocking close to the 2hr mark. Then he is really dangerous and a contender at any race, even on the national level. He’d be best served to start with the swim and work the position on the bike as you say. More on the bike would definately make him faster, but at what cost? We don’t know. Two 1hr quality sessions on the bike during the week, and one longer ride (~2hr) followed by a run on the weekend and he’d be flying. And practice that swim, both pool and open water. And did I mention the swim? Probably build to 5-6x per week.
Thanks for all of the training advice. Seems like everyone is in favor of getting some instruction on the swim. I’ll have to look into that.
You can redshirt whenever you like. I have already redshirted cross country and indoor track, so it isn’t a problem.
As some have said, I do want to keep running mileage up so I don’t have any adverse affects from biking or swimming too much. After college I can drop my mileage a bit in favor of more biking.
Is there anything I should steer clear of with aerobars? I’ve seen some on ebay for pretty good prices. Lots of Profile Design stuff on there. Has anyone used the Airstryke?
How much does a bike fitting cost? How about wetsuits? I have a surfing spring suit, but I imagine that won’t do for swimming.
I think your mileage/training plan is fine…I understand you have to keep your run focus and that’s why you’re training is run-heavy. I used cycling to cross-train when I was a dedicated runner. I was actually able to keep up with my bike-racer friends for 50+ mile rides with no bike training simply from the running cardio base. Your legs will become limp noodles though until you adapt to it. If your longest bike ride is 30 miles you might be OK as long as your legs can still be fresh enough after 26 miles to run a 34:00 10k. If not, then you’ll want some 50 milers in the mix.
As far as swimming, just have some technique lessons and don’t worry about getting the 8 mile goal distance in. Your cardio is great and if you learn to swim with decent technique you’ll automatically become a 26 minute 1500 swimmer…so don’t go crazy with the swim workouts. You won’t need to focus on conditioning in the water, just technique.
Rent a wetsuit as you suggested. It’s a great idea…but don’t swim in it for the first time on race morning. Make sure your rental arrives a few days early so you can swim in it first.
Profile or Syntace aerobars are great. Just get an inexpensive set of aluminum bars and remember that converting your road bike will require moving your seat all the way forward (and you’ll need to then raise it some) and getting the elbow pads back behind the handlebar a bit. Ideally your knees will be coming very close to those elbow pads. But fit is way too detailed to handle completely in an internet post. Find a triathlete that will be willing to mentor you on bike fit.
I can’t comment much on the training aspect, at least not in a way that would add anything of substance to what’s already up here.
A quality fit from a FIST ceritifed coach will probably run $200-400, depending on where you live and where you go.
Definitely do not use a surfing suit. They are not designed for swimming, to say the least. If you don’t want to drop the cash on buying a suit, you can rent one from www.wetsuitrentals.com for ~$60 for a week (last I used them. Px may have changed)
Great leg speed for the run. Solid on the bike. Let’s be honest, your swim sucks. 26 minutes for 1500m is mediocre at best. Additionally, you’ll probably come out of the water with a high HR & be tempted to make up time on the bike which then trashes your legs for the run. Get into the pool. Take lessons. Work on technique. Swim with a masters group. Practice open water swimming (big difference between the pool & open water). The wet suit will only take you so far.
By the way, is your coach keen on you doing triathlons (especially if you are on scholarship)? I’ve know of a couple stories where coaches got pissed when they found out “their” athletes were visiting the dark side.
I would say that he needs to put some serious bike work to attain 1:05:00 split and even more serious swim training to catch up. While his run talent and abillity are awesome, that will not necessary translate by itlself on the bike by just slapping some aerobars and go ride a little. 75mi a week of running in triathlon training is a waste of time for the olympic distance. It will take bike and swim time away and will affect recovery to be able to put quality swim and bike workouts.
In my humble oppinion the propper course of action is to tip the balance of training in favor of bike volume+intensity and swim frequency of 4-5/week with emphasys on quality. If he has to maintain run volume of 75mi/week for other reasons and run competitions, I doubt 2:05 will be possible no matter how good runner he is.
I am no expert, I could be wrong. Slapping aerobars on a road bike, no pro bike fit, riding with mtb shoes and able 23mph avg for 40k TT triathlon split, I think that is some serious cycling talent.
Running a 10k of the bike after 1hr of Z4-5a may prove a little more challenging than one may think. Not to mention if you add the swim ahead of all three. We have one sport here, not three individual.
I like how you think. You’ve obviously got a ton of running talent and experience training/racing that will carry over to tri. Yes, others have pointed out that you have work to do, but you seem to know that already. 2:10 is a lofty goal, but you’ve at least thought about the pieces and I think you can pull it off.
Regarding redshirting, I thought you only got 1 opportunity and had to complete your 4 years of competing within 5 years. I could be wrong, it’s been a long time since I paid much of any attention to NCAA technicalities, but make sure you don’t risk anything by overlooking something in the rulebook. I’m no expert since I still have 4 years of eligibility–since I never had the talent to use them.
Good luck with your goals. Let us know how it turns out.
I like how you think. You’ve obviously got a ton of running talent and experience training/racing that will carry over to tri. Yes, others have pointed out that you have work to do, but you seem to know that already. 2:10 is a lofty goal, but you’ve at least thought about the pieces and I think you can pull it off.
Regarding redshirting, I thought you only got 1 opportunity and had to complete your 4 years of competing within 5 years of entering a D1 school.
Corrected that for you. Unless you are only a freshman, you do not have four years of eligibility left.
