What are some good training combinations for riding 3 or 4 times a week for a total of about 6 hours or 100 miles?
I’m an Oly distance racer - a strong runner, decent swimmer and weak cyclist. The races I do this summer are pretty hilly Oly distance tris.
Can’t/won’t do much more than 100 miles, 6 hours, or 3 times a week. Right now I do a semi-long ride on weekends at moderate pace (40-50 miles, 3 hours, 70 percent HR max), one 20-milrer with lots of hills and one 20-miler with sprints, surges or a "time trial " to get my HR up.
I would appreciate any advice, especially from stronger runners who have improved their cycling in recent years.
Here’s my opinion, but it doesn’t mean much as I have no credentials what so ever (not a coach, not an elite, no formal training in physiology). Just throwing some ideas out there.
It looks like you are almost there in regards to mileage and time with what you are doing, the question then is what to do with that time. Since you’re only looking at 3-4 days a week, recovery rides are of less importance, I would only do these when you are totally shelled, or are doing that 4th day. Use periodization, spend some time just doing the low intensity stuff on the bike. Then, start adding in high gear/low rpm work to build up your power. You could include these in your 40-50 mile rides as well as one 20 miler strictly a power workout, like your hill ride. Do hill repeats for the majority of that 1 - 1.5 hour ride. Continue with the TT efforts, you could also include these in your long rides as well. It seems to me that it would be prudent to monitor your performance every 4 weeks or so and see how you are progressing, if you plateau, switch to a different block of workouts. Don’t do the same thing every week, especially for the shorter distance races, always look for new ways of stressing the body. Take a week and do some overdistance, cut back on the other events and put in 200 miles on the bike, at low-moderate intensity.
Another real good way to improve on little mileage are those spinerval workouts on the trainer. They are killer workouts and they only last an hour. Very efficient. If you don’t care about getting outside, they’re perfect as long as you have a good base in.
Sorry, I’m not what one would consider a strong runner…even if I was first in my AG on the run a couple of weeks ago…but I am considered to be a decent cyclist for my age.
My experience with runners is they have lots of cardiovascular fitness, but, they need more leg strength to turn those darn pedals over with more power…AND/OR they need to get much more efficient at spinning higher rpms on the bike. I think you have to look at your physiology to determine which strategy will work best for you. MOST runners seem to do better with a combination of more power work (not their natural characteristic) and better cycling efficiency at higher rpms than they ususally ride.
I’d suggest high rpm work…at least 110 rpm for as long as you can hold form. Do this a lot just after warming up. THEN, do some hard work that requires you to pedal at 10-15 or even 20 rpms lower than you normally ride. Finish up with higher than normal rpms for a period of time.
100 miles a week is plenty of mileage for you to show good improvement. I wish I could get 100 miles in every week, but I can’t. But, I’d drop the longer, slower ride if I were you. I ride hard when I ride, or I ride long, with some interval work in the ride. You’ve probably got a very good aerobic base from your running, so you may not benefit a whole lot from your 3 hour bike ride…just work harder on the bike and you should get better…unless you get injured on the bike. Watch for signs of knee pain. Ease up/stop the low rpm stuff for a while if pain rears it’s head. I’m not talking about muscle pain above your knee…that just might be a good thing Don’t mess around with knee joint pain, though.
You’ll get better cycling with more hard work! No doubt.
Lots of training approaches work, but it’s hard to go wrong by hooking up with roadies for group training rides this time of the year. Maybe two roadie group rides a week and two recovery rides. Don’t short recovery riding— a good bit of your training should still be in the lower zones. If you are doing a hard running program that also includes running intervals, you could improve on the bike with just one hard group ride a week and three or four-recovery oriented rides.
You will get your ass kicked in the first few group rides you do. Just go into them with the understanding that you will get dropped and will have to ride home alone. After a few weeks of this you will find it gets a lot easier. Once this happens, guess what. . . You just made a fitness breakthrough!
My experience with runners is they have lots of cardiovascular fitness, but, they need more leg strength to turn those darn pedals over with more power…AND/OR they need to get much more efficient at spinning higher rpms on the bike.
Good point. I came into triathlon with a run/swim background. When I first started riding, I found that I could not really push the big gears. In fact, 20 years later and I still can’t really push the big gears. So I compensate by spinning higher rpms. I probably spin 100-110 rpm in sprints and olys.
I’d keep the 3 hour endurance ride. Maybe throw in a couple of longish (10-15min) moderate surges (~1/2IM race pace) in there. The hilly ride is good, too. Helps to develop the leg strength. There’s no need for sprints in the other 20 miler, though. I recommend Oly race pace surges that last 5 to 8 minutes.
And be patient. I didn’t start riding well until my 3rd year.
My experience with runners is they have lots of cardiovascular fitness, but, they need more leg strength to turn those darn pedals over with more power…AND/OR they need to get much more efficient at spinning higher rpms on the bike.
I’m glad this came up. As I understand it, power is a factor of force and speed. Everyone always talks about improving strength to improve power, but noone ever mentions improving speed to increase power. Is there a physiological reason for this? Or is high-cadence training a viable way to improve power, as well as training to push a big gear?
I think high cadence is a good way to increase power…it’s just that, at some point, the inefficiencies of higher cadences outweigh pushing harder. But, similar to training slightly above and slightly below your “lactate threshold” or VO2 max or whatever you want to call that effort level…I think you should train at rpms just over that level that you feel most efficient, as well as just under that level (by choosing a bigger gear that forces you to push harder and slower than normal). Over time, you may find yourself riding better at higher rpms than you thought, or at lower rpms than you thought. A lot depends upon what your rpms are now. It seems to me that somewhere between around 70 and 110 are the most commonly reported rpms where various people report their “best” rpm. That’s a big range! Some of this big range is due to riders that just haven’t developed their ability to turn over higher cadences, some of this range is due to riders that always strove towards higher cadences…get pretty good at it, and then discover they actually go faster when they drop their cadence (at least at certain distances).
It’s all fairly fascinating stuff, if you like this kind of thing. Experiment. See what the better riders around you are doing. Try it for a while, see if it works for you. Don’t be afraid to decide another way doesn’t work for you as well as for others, and find your own “best”.
It’s all fairly fascinating stuff, if you like this kind of thing. Experiment.
It is, and I am.
Generally, I tend to ride at 93-95 rpm. Since moving my seat lower and farther back a few weeks ago, I’m noticing that I don’t spin the higher cadences as smoothly as before- when I get above 110 rpm now, I tend to start bouncing, whereas earlier, I could maintain up to about 120 rpm pretty smoothly. This may just be me having screwed up my seat position, or I may need to adjust to the new position, or the new position may require me to work at somewhat lower cadences- I’m not sure yet. I might just start experimenting with pushing a bigger gear for awhile and see what happens.
I’ll work on my cadence (I’ll try going higher: I average 90 rpm) try some super low-cadence stuff (to build up my legs) and diversify my long ride. Been meaning to get with some other riders around here (NW Montana) too (there are a few, but the season is abreviated).
A “long” ride is sort of different from a long run. I can see going easy for 30 min., then focusing on some hills and climbing (40 min.), then throw in a few surges (8x3 minutes maybe) then easy home for a nice 3-hour ride.
This might or might not work running. In training for a marathon, or a shorter distance, I find the best thing to do is go long and slow every 10 days-or-so and MAYBE incorporate a faster pace in the middle or end. Example: In training for the half marathon I will do in two weeks, I recently finished a 15-miler (my last and longest run), mostly easy (2 min. per mile off goal pace), but threw in some fast miles (close to goal pace) for miles 9-12. Then I cooled down.
I see an equivalent ride (50 miles) as having more opportunity for diversity. I also see a high mileage week on the bike as far less risky, injury-wise, than running too much. Which is why I’m converting to multi-sport.
One thing you touched upon, that cycling can lessen the potential for injury. I believe that is true. One other thing I believe is that there isn’t such a thing as a “recovery run” to the extent that you can find in cycling. You MIGHT be able to use an hour-long easy cycling workout at higher rpms and easy effort instead of one of your slower, shorter “recovery runs” if you have such an animal. You’ll be getting a double-whammy benefit of taking some pounding off of your legs, while working to increase your comfort at a higher cadence…you just might get better recovery from your hard runs while you improve your cycling by using this workout.
You’ll be faster in a few months, without a doubt, because you’re willing to work at it and experiment a little. Let us know how much you improve…
Don’t mess around with knee joint pain, though.