GET FAST: 2 hrs per day/~14 hrs per week/~750 hrs per year, 56 hrs sleep per week, ~6% body fat

I’m also an engineering student, and I have time to do my training time, but the sleep thing is hard for me. Do you manage to get 8 hours a night?

I get ~7hrs/night. Below 7 and I notice negative impacts on my ability to focus in school and put out good workouts. I usually sleep ~11:30-6:30. Some days it’s 11-7, others its 12-6, and if I am behind one night I try to make a point of catching up! I can get by on 5-6 for about a week, but then I use the weekend to catch up on sleep. I try to get at least 8hrs on weekend nights.

Never underestimate the power of the 20min nap!

I’m also an engineering student, and I have time to do my training time, but the sleep thing is hard for me. Do you manage to get 8 hours a night?

I get ~7hrs/night. Below 7 and I notice negative impacts on my ability to focus in school and put out good workouts. I usually sleep ~11:30-6:30. Some days it’s 11-7, others its 12-6, and if I am behind one night I try to make a point of catching up! I can get by on 5-6 for about a week, but then I use the weekend to catch up on sleep. I try to get at least 8hrs on weekend nights.

Never underestimate the power of the 20min nap!

Keep up the 56 hours per week sleep target especially in Engineering school. Only stupid or totally disorganized guys sacrifice sleep before an exam or go to class sleep deprived and do stupid things like all nighter. There is no point going to class sleep deprived. I’d rather skip a class to take a 45 min snooze and work with a buddy to get the key notes and reciprocate with him for another class so that he can skip and do something else. Whatever it takes. Work out a system so you get your sleep in. Your awake time becomes 2-5X more valuable. As an athlete you get to see the canary in the coalmine in terms of how low sleep affects your workouts, but it’s also affecting your ability to do triple integrals with trig functions or Bessel functions. You can’t cheat sleep without cheating yourself…it’s actually why I put it in the title of this thread…for the athletes that I coach, they have to submit their weekly totals. Now I get it that not all sleep is the same, but just give me the total when you are lying down and resting in bed…and hit 56.

This is SO DEAD ON - I’m 35 year into triathlon (51 yo) - and it all comes down to…

Relentless consistency
Relentless sleep
Relentless watching weight

Added to this…

ability to schedule and follow
ability to make good choices/sacrafices
not going to hard, to fast, to soon
loose the gadgets a lot of the time
find friends
and make it a true lifestyle

It not that hard people - 2-3 hours out of my day is easy to find even with 3 kids, a fairly big job and some other committments - its only difficult to do if YOU make it so

Hey, I just looked at my training for today. So far 36 minute jog and 55 minute swim. I’m going to need to do something after dinner to hit my 2 hour quota or I will need to put all my gear on ebay for digressing from the OP advice on this thread. Sounds like 15 min spin bike and 15 min of weights is needed before bed time!

It’s simply not true that 56 hours is the magic number for everyone - or even close to it. Everyone is different. Some need more, some need less and some deprive themselves and get less.

I’d venture to say that as far back as I can remember (46 years now) my weekly sleep totals have been between 40-45 hours per week. You know me and I think you’d agree that I’ve done pretty well for myself considering how low my number is.

This is SO DEAD ON - I’m 35 year into triathlon (51 yo) - and it all comes down to…

Relentless consistency
Relentless sleep
Relentless watching weight

Added to this…

ability to schedule and follow
ability to make good choices/sacrafices
not going to hard, to fast, to soon
loose the gadgets a lot of the time
find friends
and make it a true lifestyle

It not that hard people - 2-3 hours out of my day is easy to find even with 3 kids, a fairly big job and some other committments - its only difficult to do if YOU make it so

^^^^
This X’s 1000

And I would add having a truly supportive significant other into the equation.

Chronic guilt is not compatible with long term success.

Very motivating.

Been doing a trainer road plan and there wasn’t a scheduled workout today.
This thread got me to the local mountain bike trail for a 8 mile ride and a 4 mile trail run.

Gordo’s training group coined JFT. I’ve got a JFT jersey and socks. :slight_smile:

Gordo’s training group coined JFT. I’ve got a JFT jersey and socks. :slight_smile:

Maybe they stole it from Fleck…Fleck is kind of a freeware/open source type of guy. He doesn’t bother taking credit for any concepts, but was doing this long before Gordo!

Dev, I’m at the point where following training plans has actually made me worse.

I was at my best when I wasn’t following any training plan but running and cycling just about everyday, and most of that was at a snail’s pace. I PR’d swim, bike, and run during that 12-18 months I was training like that.

Now I have admittedly not been super focused on training the last couple of years but those 3x or even 4x S/B/R training plans just don’t work for me. Been trying to do that the last year and it’s not working for me. I like the JFT mentality.

So I’m going back to doing a one hour bike + one hour run brick (to save time) 4-5x per week plus a 90 minute Saturday run and 2:30-3:00 Sunday ride. Swim at lunch when I get a chance. Wake up at 5am, eat some breakfast, take a dump, hop on trainer, go run, shower, go to work. Rinse and repeat each day.

And I would add having a truly supportive significant other into the equation.

Chronic guilt is not compatible with long term success.

So true! The entire tenor and value of a session changes for me when I know I’ve got other things I could be doing but on my way out the door my wife makes it clear that she understands how important it is to me and supports me. The indolent Catholic guilt melts away and all that’s left is joy and performance.

Great thread!

So you are saying I will improve my 40K TT time just by riding 1-2 hours a day at L1/L2 without doing any type of HIIT, such as threshold or VO2 max intervals?

N=1, three or fours years ago, I wanted to try something different. In the past, I had pretty much trained lots of Sweet Spot or 20m Ftp intervals consistently year around. That spring I decided to train in high z2 (around my believed AeT) for two hour every day for three months, every single ride was at this intensity and never varied outside this zone. Results= Upside- I had second best 20m FTP ever only missing the best by a few watts. Downside- I was really crap at any effort above threshold. I have one of the highest W/Kg in my category but was get dropped early every race. It took three / four months of anaerobic work to get it back to normal but I was a monster after that.

N=1, three or fours years ago, I wanted to try something different. In the past, I had pretty much trained lots of Sweet Spot or 20m Ftp intervals consistently year around. That spring I decided to train in high z2 (around my believed AeT) for two hour every day for three months, every single ride was at this intensity and never varied outside this zone. Results= Upside- I had second best 20m FTP ever only missing the best by a few watts. Downside- I was really crap at any effort above threshold. I have one of the highest W/Kg in my category but was get dropped early every race. It took three / four months of anaerobic work to get it back to normal but I was a monster after that.

My coach has me doing something very similar. I was able to fake my way up to consistent Cat 3 top tens with good sprint genetics. I ended up inheriting my coach’s coach this off-season and his first comment was that I had no motor. Everything was based off of fast twitch muscles. He’s had me do an enormous amount of zone two and just like you guys I’m working full-time and doing these on the weekends and at night. I do feel like my snap is gone, but I also feel like my engine and on bike efficiency has improved immensely.

Dev, I’m at the point where following training plans has actually made me worse.

I was at my best when I wasn’t following any training plan but running and cycling just about everyday, and most of that was at a snail’s pace. I PR’d swim, bike, and run during that 12-18 months I was training like that.

Now I have admittedly not been super focused on training the last couple of years but those 3x or even 4x S/B/R training plans just don’t work for me. Been trying to do that the last year and it’s not working for me. I like the JFT mentality.

So I’m going back to doing a one hour bike + one hour run brick (to save time) 4-5x per week plus a 90 minute Saturday run and 2:30-3:00 Sunday ride. Swim at lunch when I get a chance. Wake up at 5am, eat some breakfast, take a dump, hop on trainer, go run, shower, go to work. Rinse and repeat each day.

I bet within your JFT approach you are modulating your intensities to handle “high enough loads” on the days that your life stresses permit and on other days, your intensities just get inherently jacked back down by feel. You are advanced enough an athlete at this point that when you raced without seeing your powermeter your NP for a 70.3 was within watts of seeing the numbers and following the numbers. You’re probably doing a bit of the same during you JFT sessions hitting numbers within 1 percent of what you’d have achieved if the plan was presecribed in detail on a spreadsheet.

What people forget is that the human body is this organic thing but its performance is pretty darn deterministic on the days it wants to perform. I can predict my 100m swim splits or 400m track splits to the second or my 90 second bike intervals to the watt and then close my eyes and go on feel and see the number at the end being exactly the predicted one. But for my athletes, I could do the same thing also once I get to know them “enough”. This stuff is not really rocket science. But you can’t beat setting up your personal framework/infrastructure such that it is repeatable and you are motivated to do more training consistently adding in as much training load as the body and mind can take.

I would say the number 1 habit of highly successful endurance athletes is that they somehow magically.

What is the rest of this sentence? Or are you saying that they are just magic?

I would say the number 1 habit of highly successful endurance athletes is that they somehow magically.

What is the rest of this sentence? Or are you saying that they are just magic?

Sorry, the rest must have gotten cut out by mistake…they magically make the training happen when other guys cave or come up with excuses.

Sorry, the rest must have gotten cut out by mistake…they magically make the training happen when other guys cave or come up with excuses.

Agree but I think it could be “They INTENTIONALLY make the training happen”. No real magic - they just do it!

Sorry, the rest must have gotten cut out by mistake…they magically make the training happen when other guys cave or come up with excuses.

Agree but I think it could be “They INTENTIONALLY make the training happen”. No real magic - they just do it!

Yes, it’s not magic, just like you don’t make money through magic. Making time for anything or making money take a ton of effort. From the outside it seems like magic but the person pulling it off, for that person its no cakewalk. Just a ton of organization and persistence and support from those around.

It comes back to the “find time” vs “make time” that exists in the vocabulary of people that can’t make a priority happen. They say, “I could not FIND time for XYZ”…it’s exactly like the person who says, “I was walking down the sidewalk and did not FIND any dollars on the street to pay for today’s dinner”…well of course you’re not going to FIND time or FIND money. It just does not happen. Its all about MAKING it happen.

I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous “Time crunched cyclists” etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks… same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days…

Somebody should expose HIIT for what it is, and stop blowing smoke up untrained beginners asses and promise them god know what in 8 weeks.

Books like Time Crunched Cyclists causes more injuries than car accidents, I would even say more bad than good.

There is a lot of people starting in the sport, and books like time crunched cyclists are the most appealing, talking about Cyclocross worlds after 8 weeks of training…

Carmichael should be hang by the balls upside down…

Well that’s quite the rant… but every time crunched plan I’ve ever looked at, including Carmichael’s, included the caveat that the plan was not optimal for reaching your maximum potential, but rather designed to get the best bang for the buck out of low to moderate volume, not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the only practical approach.

You know, shocking as it may be to some in the ST world, many people have families, jobs that require long hours, etc. and can’t make training the primary focus of their nonworking hours.

I think a lot of it was cased by HIIT, famous “Time crunched cyclists” etc, magic BS gains in 8 weeks… same as magic diet that allows you to loose 20kg in 30 days…

Somebody should expose HIIT for what it is, and stop blowing smoke up untrained beginners asses and promise them god know what in 8 weeks.

Books like Time Crunched Cyclists causes more injuries than car accidents, I would even say more bad than good.

There is a lot of people starting in the sport, and books like time crunched cyclists are the most appealing, talking about Cyclocross worlds after 8 weeks of training…

Carmichael should be hang by the balls upside down…

Well that’s quite the rant… but every time crunched plan I’ve ever looked at, including Carmichael’s, included the caveat that the plan was not optimal for reaching your maximum potential, but rather designed to get the best bang for the buck out of low to moderate volume, not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the only practical approach.

You know, shocking as it may be to some in the ST world, many people have families, jobs that require long hours, etc. and can’t make training the primary focus of their nonworking hours.

Well there is always the option to change jobs and open up more time for other things if the long working hours are getting in the way. It’s really a question of what someone wants out of life. There are only a few jobs in this world that you can’t switch out of. The rest, you can if you want to. It may involve making less money, or the work might be less interesting or glamorous, but there are other options that allow people more time with family and for fitness. Most of these things are a personal choice. Less job, less fancy car/s, less fancy everything, more time for family or training. These are all personal priority management choices at different phases in life.

But hey, if the long work hours make one happy (and I know that in general my work life has made me quite happy as I get paid to do my other hobby which is tech), then it is totally fine if one wants to short change training. It’s fine. But if someone is miserable because of their long work hours and they can’t enjoy exercise which they want to do and want to work less, it sounds like they are prisoners in their own self created jail cell.

This may or may not be you. I’ve gone through that myself at times and just made sure I inserted by 2 hours of training somehow, work be damned…or I changed jobs. There is still 8-12 hours per day (depending on the company and the mission) for work. Honestly if I can’t produce in 6 hours what other guys doing the presenteeism routine are doing in 10 hours then I’m just being inefficient (because by and large most people are work are inherently inefficient). On the other hand, I am in an output measured industry, so it’s easier for me to say. If one is in a service oriented or manufacturing oriented company where every unit of input time equates to an output then you can’t get away with my mindset.

And I should add, just winging 2 hours of training per day WILL NOT GET ONE to their max potential, just like Carmichael won’t on HITS. There are much better ways to get to max potential. In general terms though, 2 hours per day and getting to low body fat and lots of rest through sleep will get most guys and girls really far towards the max potential. Then you have the last 5%, but the last 5 percent over a 10 hour Ironman is the diff between the 10 hour guy and the 9:30 guy. 5% does not sound like a lot but it’s a completely different world. For that, you really do have to apply proper science. JFT 2 hrs per day will go only so far.

not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the only practical approach.

I’m going to completely disagree. Having been on that side that felt it was the only “practical approach,” I was fooling myself because I didn’t want to take the plunge and put in the mental effort required to do 14-16hrs a week. I rationalized that I could get by with 5-9hrs a week. That HIIT was just as good if not even scientifically better. But the truth of the matter was and is that there is no substitute for hard work. But that’s just it, it’s “hard” work and we all know the mind breaks long before the body. This is especially true after you spend 8-9hrs at the office.

Here’s the crux: People basically want to come home from work and have the training equivalent of a microwave dinner. Push a few buttons on the smart trainer and off you go…

So personally, I would reword your sentence “not because that is the better approach but because for many people it is the mental easier approach.”