I have read a lot of swim training books, articles, peoples posts etc. and people tend to swim lots of rather short sets. Does any-one else just swim for 3,000 to 5,000 yards without stopping for a training session? It seems to me that we all try to do long bike rides and long runs, why not long swims?
At least once a week during a training program. This is usually associated with my long slower workouts of bike and run on the weekends.
It seems to me that we all try to do long bike rides and long runs, why not long swims?
Because cruising around at an aerobic pace for 5000 yds is not as good a return on your training time investment as doing the same yards with intensity.
Swim training is entirely different from run training, and cycling training, they’re different sports. Swimming is ALL interval based.
The only times I’ve swum that far continuously:
Postal 1 hr swim challenge (like a race)
At the beginning of a SWIM training cycle (for pool competition not tri swimming) we’ll do a 3300 for time (think 2 x 1650 
or a 30 min TT to set threshold pace. A 3300 for time is “overload endurance training” so says my favorite swim training partner whose hip I cling to while we’re doing that to draft. But on a regular basis? Nope. You’re far more likely to find me doing 8 x 300 on 4:15 or something and making them fast and painful.
Swimming is all about technique and swimming 3k or 5k will not allow you to maintain proper technique. Most people can’t even do that for 100 yards. Good swimmers will last a lot more, but to do a 3k straight it is tough and if anybody does it on a regular basis, they will develop bad habits.
Tiago
Hi bmcmaster11,
You should indeed include long swims at a light effort in your workout routine; just as you do for biking and running. However the time you spend on swimming, biking and running depends on 1. your goal race (olympic? 1/2 IM? IM?) 2. time of the year and 3. your experience.
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If you do Olympic distance triathlons, swimming long plays a part only in the early season for base training. You also don’t have to build the distance as much as 1/2 IM or IM athletes. Swimming is not about speed. In fact, 80% of the speed is due to being more efficient in the water. Becoming efficient while swimming is accomplished through swim analysis and working on your stroke.
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EArly in your racing season, focus on the long distance swims, bikes and runs. Do these at light intensity.
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If your background is marathon and you are new to swimming, doing 1 hour swims will cause overtraining and injury. If you have been a swimmer all your life, doing 60 minutes distance swims is nothing too challenging.
Time is oftentimes an issue. you only need to build to a certain percentage of your goal race.
Hope that helps!
M.S.
2.
Swim training is entirely different from run training, and cycling training, they’re different sports. Swimming is ALL interval based.
Yes, but keep in mind, Tigerchik, that triathlon is NOT swimming. It’s its own sport that involves only what we perceive as swimming, and even then, it only plays a very minor part in it. Long swim time trials are not a waste of time. Talking about long swim time trials on an Internet forum are, however! So keep swimming them and see what affect they may (or may not have). My guess is, so long as your form is not getting worse throughout them, you’ll find benefit.
Swimming is not about speed.
Wow. I thought speed was the entire point.
what makes you think that your training for triathlon should be that much different then if you were a swimmer?
something else a lot of people newer to the sport dont know/dont seem to get, swimming is so intervals based because it can be without killing you,
i bet if we could do all our runs are tempo/ and track workout styles AND keep up milage doing that there would be some wicked fast runners out there, but it simply wont work, you would break, die, and once again have your dreams crushed.
swimming doesnt have the pounding, and going harder is gonna make you faster;-)
sceince 101 by newbz
what makes you think that your training for triathlon should be that much different then if you were a swimmer?
Brian, are you serious? Well, for one, they’re two different sports. If you’re talking about open-water swimming then maybe the training could be more comparable, but pool swimming as compared to triathlon swimming are two distinctly different activities, and therefore might just require two different ways of preparing. The longest event in swimming (in a pool) doesn’t take all that long and, as such, would or should involve more of a focus on shorter, more intense efforts. Triathlon, particularly longer ones, would or should entail more steady-state pacing, since that’s what’s involved on race day, not to mention the fact that you need to ride and run shortly thereafter. You can train however you want to—I wouldn’t argue that—but ours is a slow-moving sport made for us slow-moving types. (I myself have been a 21-minute half-Ironman swimmer, so I don’t necessarily call myself slow-moving and I was swimming my fastest when I did much longer stuff: timed 5Ks, etc.)
something else a lot of people newer to the sport dont know/dont seem to get, swimming is so intervals based because it can be without killing you,
i bet if we could do all our runs are tempo/ and track workout styles AND keep up milage doing that there would be some wicked fast runners out there, but it simply wont work, you would break, die, and once again have your dreams crushed.
swimming doesnt have the pounding, and going harder is gonna make you faster;-)
sceince 101 by newbz
I think this is a great point, and one I forgot. When I finally started swimming with a master’s team and getting fast, I remember thinking that if I went to the track every day and did intervals for 1 1/2 hours I would tore up like no one’s business.
If time were no object I’m sure someone could get the same amount of speed by swimming long distances, like people who only swim open water or who use an endless pool. I think it’s more efficient to train using interval sets. For me. I find that I tend to go slower and can’t push the envelope as much when swimming super long distances in training.
I often find that if I am swimming relly hard intervals that my form brakes down just pretty quickly. I seem to have a sweet spot for my stroke. If I go too fast it breaks down. If I go to long it also breaks down. BUT I find that doing intervals AND pushing myself to swim long sets seems to help me keep my form in that sweet spot for longer. I try to finish off my workouts with a 15+ min swim to further develop my swim endurance.
pool swimming as compared to triathlon swimming are two distinctly different activities, and therefore might just require two different ways of preparing.
Is a tri swim not a distance freestyle race?
If swimming is all about intervals, why is it that some people who can swim quickly in the 100s, 200s, 400s… cant hold their pace or die off after it hits 800+. Please educate me, cause I dont understand.
If swimming is all about intervals, why is it that some people who can swim quickly in the 100s, 200s, 400s… cant hold their pace or die off after it hits 800+. Please educate me, cause I dont understand.
When I say “swimming is all about intervals” what I mean is a swim workout should be structured with sets and rest intervals rather than ‘swim 3k straight.’ For instance, your main set might be 10 x 200 on 3:30 best average. A recovery set might be 6 x 100 pull on 1:30.
You question: perhaps that athlete starts her 800 too fast and then her pace drops off. Maybe she can hold good technique for 100-400 yds but her form falls apart as the distance increases, and that is why pace slows. Keep doing intervals and stuff and eventually you’ll be fine with the longer sets.
You can also do, say, 8 x 75 with :10 rest… rather than 8 x 75 ON 1:10.
Or (swim joke) maybe you’ve got a sprinter, they can swim fast 100s and 200s all day but are too ADD to swim distance!
something else a lot of people newer to the sport dont know/dont seem to get, swimming is so intervals based because it can be without killing you,
i bet if we could do all our runs are tempo/ and track workout styles AND keep up milage doing that there would be some wicked fast runners out there, but it simply wont work, you would break, die, and once again have your dreams crushed.
swimming doesnt have the pounding, and going harder is gonna make you faster;-)
sceince 101 by newbz
Excellent points! to add to them a bit
(1) Intervals doesn’t mean all fast, hard intervals.
(2) Swimming doesn’t have the muscle microtrauma of running and cycling, because it is the eccentric muscle contractions of those sports that causes z line ‘tears’ in muscles. Swimming is all concentric contractions, which doesn’t induce as much ‘damage.’ For this reason you can swim “hard” most of the time.
(3) I dislike saying “swimming hard” because swimming “hard” for most people means they start thrashing through the water. Don’t swim hard. Swim fast 
I try to finish off my workouts with a 15+ min swim to further develop my swim endurance.
I usually finish my workouts with playing on the 3m diving board. Actually half my motivation to swim on some days involves “if I go swim I can do flips off the 3m board after!!!”
something else a lot of people newer to the sport dont know/dont seem to get, swimming is so intervals based because it can be without killing you,
Exactly! the most efficient way to train for ANY endurance based sport is a healthy dose of intervals. The only reason long distance runners don’t do more is they will hurt them selves. Cyclists do lots of intervals, either purposely in training or in races which are by and large long interval sessions with their changes in intensity.
Any triatlete who trains like real swimmers do in the pool AND out on the road, will be alot faster.
By and large, triathlon on the non pro level is about the least advanced sport out there in terms of scientific training. Its a host of wives tails and justifications for doing what we like to do, go long, rather than what we should do, which is spend a signifant amount of time going fast, even if it means going shorter.
So, take any training advice from a triathlete with a a grain of salt. There is a high probabablity while the person can spout the tri orthodoxy, they may not have a clue what they are talking about.
We must be looking at different training literature/philosophies. I don’t see very many coaches or training plans out there recommending going long and slow anymore even if that might be the “best” approach (lots of disagreement on that point). Most coaches/plans now recommend a lot of intensity. I think the real issue is figuring out how to incorporate intensity at the appropriate levels and times. An athlete that did nothing but high intensity workouts in all three disciplines all the time would surely break down before too long. When you say that triathlon has about the least scientifically based training out there it might have more to do with people trying to incorporate the science associated with single sport athletes into a sport that has three disciplines. That is as much art as science I think. When I was only cycling I could handle 5 days per week with tons of intensity. But when you have risidual fatigue from training in other disciplines to account for a lot more thought has to be given to when, where and how much to train at an intense level. At some point a focus on swimming fast intervals has to translate into swimming with the best form you have for the distance required in your race. Michael Phelps record breaking 100 m swim times wouldn’t mean squat in an Ironman swim unless he can take some level of that speed/form and also have the endurance to finish the entire swim with energy left to bike and run.
Cycling also doesn’t have any eccentric contractions.