For those of you familiar with Concept rowers

Triathlon Forum
1

I was wondering what types of workouts would be good for somebody who is new to this machine.

I know a lot of you former rowers seem to hate these machines, but…as a type of crosstraining I kind of like getting on the thing every now and again, but I am looking for some sort of good workout as opposed to just rowing and rowing and rowing (which is fine at times too).

Do you go for time, distance, strokes per minute or something?

Forgive my ignorance…I am pretty clueless with this machine, but it does seem like a kick ass workout…

Thanks

2

step 1: find a rower or ex rower to teach you how to erg properly. you can really f’ yourself up by doing it wrong. I sit down on the erg at the gym and cringe at what the people next to me are doing.
step 2: google. im sure you could dig up some erg workouts pretty quick
and yes- stroke rating is huge. for the most part, a hard drive and long slow recovery is best. think stroke ratings between 20 and 24 for the bodies of most pieces. esp when you’re new to it. as a first timer, youll probably sit down and crank out something in the 30s… terribly inefficient. dont kill yourself, and see step 1.

3

Go to www.concept2.com, then look at the “Training” tab. Lots of good info on both technique and workouts.

x2 on the other post about having someone teach you the right way. Having a rowing coach spend just a half hour with will probably have a huge payback. All rowers make fun of “gym rowers” who have totally effed-up technique.

4

Totally agree with the above poster. Find a rower, and have them show you the proper form. I don’t mean someone who works at the gym and is a “personal trainer”. 99% of them are just as clueless as everyone else about the proper way to row. It is very obvious when a “non-rower” is on a rowing machine. Sorry, but its so bad that its often comical.

Moving beyond that, make sure that you place the resistance damper no “heavier” than 3 or 4. You’re just asking for misery, and possibly injury, if you make the load any heavier than around 4. On top of that, a decent eight (a shell with 8 people in it), typically feels like a resistance setting of 2 or 3, so the heavier settings don’t even simulate actual rowing.

Erg workouts are pretty similar in nature to bike workouts (but typically shorter in duration). Pick a stroke rate, and either do steady state or intervals. Stroke rates in the low 20’s are usually a good place to hang out for steady state, and maybe you can pick it up into the mid/high 20’s for intervals. Before you mess around with all of that, however, learn how to row properly at a low stroke rating (18-22). Once you get the form down and written into muscle memory, you can start rowing at higher ratings and your body will be able to maintain proper form.

5

yes. it’s a kick ass workout. I rowed for 2 years in college and the hardest workouts I’ve ever done were on that god-forsaken torture device. :wink:

x2 on getting some instruction. You can really mess your lower back if you have bad technique. It’s a been awhile since I belonged to a gym that had a ConceptII but I used to do 3 x 1500m with 3 min off between reps, trying to get a little faster with each 1500. That was a very solid short workout.

6

Absolutely in agreement here. In a shell you’re forced to row properly or you get knocked around, but in the gym some people whip the chain around so much on the machines it’s obvious why gym equipment is always broken. Technique is key on these things. The Concept2 website even has a video on proper technique.

As for workouts, the newer ergs have built-in programs to choose from - everything from long endurance rows to interval sets. You can also program your own if you really want. I’d start off with one of the pre-programmed ones.

7

Thanks for the tips. I dont know if I can find a person to show me good form in person at my gym, but I will certainly do all the research I can to avoid the bad habits you guys speak of.

Thanks again…keep the ideas/tips coming!

8

Agree with the earlier replies. The biggest mistake I’ve seen most non-rowers do on the machines is come up all together. The return should be three separate-but-smoothed segments - hands, then shoulders, then slide.

So from the fully extended position (legs fully extended, back angled back about 30 degrees from verticle, and oar pulled into the chest at the bottom of the rib cage).

  1. Extend the hands
  2. Angle the body forward so that shoulders move up
  3. Only then, bend the knees to bring the slide forward, moving the whole body up until your knees are in your chest and you’re ready to change to the drive phase.

When done properly, your hands will be past your knees before you bend your knees, and so you won’t have to raise your hands (which are holding an imaginary oar!) to get them over your knees.

The drive should be essentially the reverse - legs, then shoulders, then hands pulling the oar to the chest.

A drill we used to do on the water to emphasize the order of the return was “hands, shoulders, slide.” Really separating the actions with distinct pauses between each.

9

I recommend getting a 2x4 and hitting yourself in the head repeatedly. you may not quite the same quality of workout, but it will definitely be more enjoyable.

10

shoot man, I rowed for alabama for 4 years and my last year during the spring season, our Monday afternoon erg workout was 3 x 2K at race pace with 6 minutes in between each one. it was brutal, but when we got to a real race, it seemed easy because we only had to race 2 or 3 times over the course of a few hours rather than over the course of 30 minutes.

11

since everyone else already pretty much hit the find some help,
here are a few of my “favorite” workouts: enjoy;-)

10-15x500m on 3-4 min rest (open rate), all out for each, done at or just under 2k pace

4-8x1000m on 5 min rest, stroke rate 24-26-best possible ave

2x2500m, rest 4-6 min- stroke rate starts at 20, and comes up two every 500m. (so 500 at 20, 500 at 22, etc)

20-40min steady state (dont go over 20 min at a time when you start out)

4x10 min at 20-24 stroke rating, 2 min rest, tempo type pace

there is all sorts of fun you can have with an erg.

personly i dont like going near them anymore, i coach crew still and the girls tend to hate me on erg days

12

shoot man, I rowed for alabama for 4 years and my last year during the spring season, our Monday afternoon erg workout was 3 x 2K at race pace with 6 minutes in between each one. it was brutal, but when we got to a real race, it seemed easy because we only had to race 2 or 3 times over the course of a few hours rather than over the course of 30 minutes.
When did you row for Alabama? I finished my 4 years of undergrad at LSU last Spring. We raced against Alabama in our MV8 C semifinals at SIRA (got our asses kicked by everyone) and had a really good race against Alabama in the lane next to us. Gracious in victory, but it was a tight race through 1850m, I think we finished around a second back. This year, LSU finally made it out to the Row Tide regatta, wish we would’ve made it out there during my rowing years.

13

I finished my last spring in the fall of 2007. we never had enough guys to make an mv8+ so we always raced an mv4+. spring of 2005 we made it to the semi’s at the Dad Vail regatta, fall of 2006 we finished 9th in the club 4+ at the head of the charles and my last spring in 2007 we finished 5th in the A final at SIRA. i remember lsu was just starting up when I finished, and I was actually at the row tide regatta last weekend b/c i have a bunch of friends still on the team. how is lsu doing now?

14

So the real question… How much does rowing actually transfer over to cycling/tri fitness? I’ve been riding for 3 years, decided I did too much and needed a break in the Fall, took up rowing, but now it’s time to get back on the bike.

15

for me rowing set me up very very well for cycling.

i came from a very serious ltwt rowing background (6:20 2k, looking to make the U23 team), and had my best event by FAR be cycling right off the bat. i think the leg work carries over well, and mentally biking does not mess with your head the way erging/2ks do;-)

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I was wondering what types of workouts would be good for somebody who is new to this machine.

I know a lot of you former rowers seem to hate these machines, but…as a type of crosstraining I kind of like getting on the thing every now and again, but I am looking for some sort of good workout as opposed to just rowing and rowing and rowing (which is fine at times too).

Do you go for time, distance, strokes per minute or something?

Forgive my ignorance…I am pretty clueless with this machine, but it does seem like a kick ass workout…

Thanks

I use to row in high school and like the people above have said, get a rower to teach you. Super basic tips to make sure you arn’t comical in the gym is tha rowing is a three step process, legs, back arms and back again. That is when you are just about to start pulling (the catch) push with your legs and legs only first, then once your legs are basically fully extended, rock your body back then bicep curl the bar to your chest (your arms out winged when you pull, not down by the side of your body). The second thing that is harder to self-diagnose is kicking your backside out. I use to do it when i started rowing where you kick your backside out when you pushing with your legs, instead of pushing. Kinda hard to explain but you will know when someome shows you. Our rowing shed was mirrors all on two sides, good idea to set up in front of a mirror if you can.

Rowers hate the machines because they are always always pain sessions. Rowers use erog’s to improve strength/endurance, not technqiue. Oh and one thing about the concept 2 model D’s, our school did some informal experimenting and set resistances to about 3.2-3.3 to simulate water. Not that it really matters if you are using it for cross training but rowers hardly ever (well never in my knowledge) change resitsnaces during or for different work outs.

Ok this is how we use to train on them.

Early season (base): We did not really use them much, base is better to do on the water where you can work on technique as well. But sessions where 30 mins straight rowing at constant pace (about 40secs/500m slower than you 2k pace). We actually had a odometer type leader board to encourage base training over the off season. Our hard sessions where max distance in 15 minutes * 2 or a 2k time trial so our coaches can monitor performace etc. On the water was basically 40 minutes straight rowing easy, 2min drinks, then row 40 minutes back easy.

Mid seasons (build): 1500m reapeats where a favourite, as well as the 15mins. 41500 with 5 minutes in between where a good session or 215 minutes with like 10 minutes break. And the 2k ergos started happening bi-weekly. On the water we would start doing 2*5k trials (20 minutes roughly depending what boat you were rowing).

End of season: 2 sessions that were total bitches. 41k with 1k row back in between and 32k with 2k row back, basically 20 secs rest after each main piece. We done those on water. Ergo were 115min or 2k time trial (they can hurt more than any interval session you do). Or it would be 51000m with 1 min rest between or similar variants.

This is an idea of what we did to train for 2k races. For cross training, just go long and slow at the start. 2*15min with 10 minutes in between/warmup/cooldown is a nice hard session. Those interval sessions are hard if done properly and will burn you out pretty quick if your just doing them by yourself. I wouldn’t recommed doing them (often at least) unless you become a rower. There is a good reason why every rower hates them, including me.

17

Yea, I got to LSU and it was a defunct club, but my girlfriend and I got it back going. It was total shit for the first 2 years (04-06), but we started getting some momentum in 07. We actually raced an MV4+ at SIRA in 07 as well. Looking back on the results, we weren’t in the same heat or anything, but DAYUM you guys were quick!

LSU is doing better, but there are so many problems it’s ridiculous. We still have a grand total of 2 working ergs (at the REC), no coach’s launch (due to restrictions on where we row), and shitty equiment. But they’re hanging in there and raising money, which I’m sure you’re well aware of the difficulties there, being from a club team. This year, the team isn’t as strong, some of stronger rowers graduated or are studying abroad this year, so the MV8+ that raced at Row Tide, in my opinion, is weak. They should just send a MV4+ to SIRA, but I’m afraid they’re going to make the same mistake we did last year and send a freakin’ 8. I still regret not convincing our coach to just send a 4 last year, we wouldn’t have been KILLED like we were.

18

Yea the same thing happened to me when I started doing tris; it set me up really well for the bike. The thing that I think helped me out the most from rowing was probably the ability to take pain and having a very high anaerobic threshold. Once you do workouts such as 3 x 2K race pace, 8 x 500 all out, 2 x 5K race pace, 3 x 15 min slightly above 5k race pace, etc just to name a few, you really learn how to manage pain and push yourself. Another thing that I noticed is that I am able to maintain very high average heart rates for races such as 5k’s, 10k’s, and short sprint triathlons. I did a 5k tt on the track the other day and my average HR was 198 out of a max of 206.

David, where did you row at? I’m also a lightweight rower, but the program at Alabama never had enough rowers to make a competitive lightweight boat; we always had a good solid mv4+ though. 6:20 is pretty solid…my best ever was a 6:40 my senior year.

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dublin in highshcool on my own in a ltwt 1x, 2x, and 2- after that (first two years of college)
.

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Newbz really knows rowing workouts. He coached me in college from having zero rowing experience, to being invited to the national team development program in 6 months. Erg workouts are great cross training for triathlon, much in the same way xc skiing is. Its also really time effective as well - in 30 mins you can get a killer workout. I found that the rowing helped my cycling tremendously, helped my swimming some, and my running very little.

But yeah, Newbz knows his stuff :wink: He is also coaching a very competitive high school rowing team in ohio and they are doing very well!