To me, the pros at Malibu Tri is the equivalent to an exhibition game and this is not a big deal.
But what do you think?
Nothing to discuss. You can’t tell how far anyone is in any of those pictures.
Discussion ended.
You can’t accurately measure the distances from these photos
Nothing to see here people, move along…
To me, the pros at Malibu Tri is the equivalent to an exhibition game and this is not a big deal.
But what do you think?
OK, it’s hard to say for SURE, but me, as one of the top ten drafting haters of all time, I wouldn’t bust any of these guys. They SEEM, based on the less that ideal/difinitive info from the photos, to be riding legally or dangerously close to it.
Are they drafting? Sure, they are riding close enough to get a benefit from the rider in front. Are they breaking the drafting laws as they are currently written? I don’t think so.
Pics 3 & 4 are most conclusive. Using the bike length as a guide, and the fact that they are in almost perfect alignment going down the road, they seem to be riding legally or so close I wouldn’t bust them from a motorbike.
Me? After hating drafting so much, I checked out the display at IMNZ bunch of years ago (where they had a bike on a trainer, and tape on the gound showing the drafting zone) I got on my bike (a friend holding me) behind the display and consciously stored the visual image as my reference for drafting/not drafting on race day. I then made sure I had several metres spare, just to make sure I wasn’t going to get pinged. I was passed at one point and may technically been right on the bubble (although I don’t think I was) and got a warning. I immediately sat up, touched the brakes briefly to drop back about another 5m or so and all was well. I then used this new mental picture as a reference and rode further back from other riders as they passed me. No drama.
NO DRAFTING!!!
Agreed on distances and photos. Anyone know if the pro ‘stagger’ rule applied?
"You can’t accurately measure the distances from these photos "
Very true. But if that’s not illegal drafting, it sure looks fairly close.
Falriy cloes but not illegal
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I watched them go by from the opposite side of the street and definitely didn’t think they were drafting and I am definitely a draft hater!!
That looks close but legal to me also.
jaretj
It looks very much like they are riding legal.
yes and almost yes, but.
Funny how a picture like this can be put up of AG’ers and there would be three pages calling them cheaters. Many times those photos were hard to tell just exactly how far they are from each other lke this, but yep, they are drafting cheaters.
Post a pic of pros up and nope, can’t tell. Nope, they are legal.
Still photos such as these are perhaps the worst way to figure out if some one is drafting.
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Drafting or not drafting in the context of non-ITU racing is a dyanamic event that takes place over time and space. To better understand what I mean, count slowly to 25. When you do this it feels like a long time.
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I have watched the Pros up close in races and they know exactly where that limit is, and they stick right to it. It’s very smart of them to do that and within the rules.
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Many AG athletes don’t understand this and have no idea what the limit is and have no sense of time and often are drafting.
Looks to me like they are not legal, particularly from the photo where they are next to the car. How far back do they have to be again?
I know I wouldn’t be happy if I was Chris Lieto. But then again, this happens to him like every race.
b. Definition of Drafting Zone. The term “drafting zone” shall refer to a rectangular area seven (7) meters long and two (2) meters wide surrounding each bicycle. About three bike lengths.
yes and almost yes, but.
Funny how a picture like this can be put up of AG’ers and there would be three pages calling them cheaters. Many times those photos were hard to tell just exactly how far they are from each other lke this, but yep, they are drafting cheaters.
Post a pic of pros up and nope, can’t tell. Nope, they are legal.
Just for fun, do you have an example of age groupers who have been lambasted by the forum that look similar to this picture?
yes and almost yes, but.
Funny how a picture like this can be put up of AG’ers and there would be three pages calling them cheaters. Many times those photos were hard to tell just exactly how far they are from each other lke this, but yep, they are drafting cheaters.
Post a pic of pros up and nope, can’t tell. Nope, they are legal.
Just for fun, do you have an example of age groupers who have been lambasted by the forum that look similar to this picture?
Spending half the day looking through threads doesn’t sound like much fun to me.
If you have the time to prove me wrong though, knock yourself out.
The only ones I remember are the shots from clearwater where there were massive packs of people.
In order to prove you wrong, you would have had to have proven something to start. 
Mark,
Repeat after me - Pictures are useless for this!
Even some of the “Packs” that people mention here, can still be legal. Again, 20 - 25 sec is a long time for a lot to happen. In “Packs”, what officials are looking for is movement, of specifically in the case of offenders a lack of movement. Is their position in that pack static for 20 odd seconds? If that is the case, then they are drafting. Another sure sign of intent is following wheels - going from wheel to wheel within a group or as riders pass. You see this quite a bit. Put the clock on them and if they keep that up for 20 sec, then they are drafting. This is not to be confused with sling-shotting, which for stronger AG riders who are continually moving through draft zones, in succession, always within 20 seconds is legal.
The only ones I remember are the shots from clearwater where there were massive packs of people.
In order to prove you wrong, you would have had to have proven something to start.
You’re right and it was opnion. Anyone is welcome to call BS on me for that, or agree. I’m ok with either. 
I remember the ones from Clearwater and even though they were in large packs, most seemed to be making an “effort” to stay legal, but they were three wide it looked bad.