Has anyone out there experienced this? I have a bulged disc in my lumbar and the pain pattern seems to point to flip turns being a major cause of aggravation. Any guidance on turning without a lot of flexion would be welcome.
A college teammate of mine had what soulds like a similar kind of back injury. End result was that her doctor told her to do only open turns during training and to save the flip turns for race day. It wasn’t pretty, but it helped keep her pain levels down.
You don’t need flip turns in tri, so don’t do them. If you are good at them they probably give you a false sense of speed/timing you won’t get in open water.
Chad
Just do open turns.
I’ve had low back problems (bulging discs and strained ligaments currently, but also a ruptured disc that was surgically partially removed about 8 years ago) for years, and flip turns seem to aggravate my back. My only choice is to do open turns; they don’t look as nice and are probably slower than flip turns, but it better than the nagging back pain.
Why would you do flip turns in a pool when you can’t do them in a race? Go to the wall, stop, turn, push off and keep going. Repeat as necessary.
Bob
Why would you do flip turns in a pool when you can’t do them in a race? Go to the wall, stop, turn, push off and keep going. Repeat as necessary.
Bob
That’s why you don’t ‘need’ to do them, but not a reason to avoid them. You also don’t touch, turn, and push in a race either yet you are advocating that he adopt this technique.
On the topic of open turns…even for the true blue swimmers, open turns are used heavily in breast stroke and IM races so they need to be worked on too.
I tend to avoid flip turns except in swim meets when racing sprints. I’ve gotten my open turns down to just as fast as my teammates’ flip turns.
I think my point was that the OP has a back problem and flip-tunrs aggravate it, so go to open turns. Seems like the OP was opining that it was flip turns or nothing.
Bob
Swimming in open water solves this problem entirely!
Had the same problem a few years ago. I just did open turns and it was so much more comfortable. I don’t do any swim racing, so I didn’t really care what kind of turn I was doing. I was at the pool to “swim” not “turn.” Good luck rehabbing!
Herniated disker here. I know of what you speak and had to modify my flip turn so it’s more of an side-ways roll. I don’t completely extend my legs out to the wall, and I don’t snap my hips over hard. When my feet hit the wall, I am sort of on my side as opposed of being completely upside down.
Anyhow, try experimenting. If it doesn’t work, then I guess you are stuck with open turns.
How long has your disk been bulging, and what are you doing to minimize the impact in terms of therapy, treatment?
Herniated disker here. I know of what you speak and had to modify my flip turn so it’s more of an side-ways roll. I don’t completely extend my legs out to the wall, and I don’t snap my hips over hard. When my feet hit the wall, I am sort of on my side as opposed of being completely upside down.
Anyhow, try experimenting. If it doesn’t work, then I guess you are stuck with open turns.
How long has your disk been bulging, and what are you doing to minimize the impact in terms of therapy, treatment?
As far as short term rehab, I’ve been doing lots of cobra pose and other stretches. I also purchased an inversion table. While there are no studies that confirm long range benefits of an inversion table, I can say that this n=1 has been enjoying the stretch it provides. I’m only holding inversion for one minute at a time and doing it a couple times a day. I decided to drop the bike for the last month as well and just run and swim, and will be doing my first aquathlon tomorrow - looking forward to it!
I’ve had low back problems (bulging discs and strained ligaments currently, but also a ruptured disc that was surgically partially removed about 8 years ago) for years, and flip turns seem to aggravate my back. My only choice is to do open turns; they don’t look as nice and are probably slower than flip turns, but it better than the nagging back pain.
Don’t listen to sinkorswim. I swim masters with the dude and he is just looking for an excuse not to do flip turns.
In this case he is right. But that doesn’t change my advice: “Don’t listen to sinkorswim.”
Have been there.
First I found out it was actually swimming freestyle itself that aggravated the lower back injury.
Backstroke is much better for back rehab.
When I got better, I found out that not flip-turns in general were the problem, but my poor execution of them.
I was twisting my body while pushing off the wall.
After I pushed off straight on my back and started turning only after having left the wall I had significant less problems.
Again, it is likely that your flipturn execution is giving you the trouble.
Best.
My advice would be to figure out which part of the flip turn hurts you. You might be able to modify the flip turn in a way that allows you to not grab the wall-breath-push off that seems to be slow.
I have one herniated and one bulged disc. For me it is the entry tuck and flip part that hurts the back, but I can push off pretty hard without any problem. So, I enter slowly and early and then push off hard.
in 2006 I had some undiagnosed torn discs in my low back and kept trying to SwimBikeRun on them only to be in a complete world of HELL. Flip turns (as well as body rotation) in the swim aggravated it a lot.
I would agree with the other posts. The general rotational motion of swimming and the flip turns probably contribute to your lower back pain. I find that I start getting lower back stiffness due to my swimming position. The only way I can eliminate it is to do more yardage and core exercises (crunches, leg lifts etc.).
Has anyone out there experienced this? I have a bulged disc in my lumbar and the pain pattern seems to point to flip turns being a major cause of aggravation. Any guidance on turning without a lot of flexion would be welcome.
Have you tried reverse flip turns? (As you approach the wall, roll over on your back. When you reach the wall, do a regular forwards somersault to drop your legs underneath you and around to the wall for the push off. Sounds complicated, but it’s actually easier than a regular flip turn.) Different angles might do the trick. Not quite as fast as a regular flip turn, but a side benefit is you get plenty of air while on your back.
Stephen
Yes, I did try the backwards turn but found it still aggravated my back due to the lumbar flexion. I worked on my open turns yesterday and they look like the answer. The back was fine and I really didn’t feel that much slower, but of course, my flip turn was not of Olympic standards to start.