Fit before deciding which bike?

Triathlon Forum
1

So I want to buy a new bike and always read ‘buy the one that fits best’, however I don’t know of where I could go (around the Houston area) to get fitted by and un-biased fitter that could then give me a chart or recommendation or whatever (geometry?) on which bikes would fit me the best… I say this because all shops would likely say ‘if you buy this bike here we fit you for free’ and would try to push their particular bike brand, but I wouldn’t be able to get fitted first and then check on which geometry/brand works best… I am thinking about the lines of Felt B2, Cervelo P2C, P3C, Kuota Kueen-K…

Appreciate the guidance about the right order of events to buy the ‘right’ bike and any recommendation in or around Houston (I actually live North of Houston in the Woodlands area to be more specific).

I just found this Fit calculator on Competitive cyclist and whenever my wife wakes up I will ask her to help me measure myself to input, perhaps this will give me a starting point… anybody used this before and would help me narrow down on brands that might fit?

2

Fit before purchase is the right way to do things. No idea about the houston area though. Don’t get sucked into the hot bike of the year b/c you think it looks cool. Buy the one that fits regardless of what the sticker says on the downtube. Ultimately the fastest one is the one that fits you. If it happens to be one of the bikes you are already thinking about then fine. If not, be open to other brands.

3

Fit is important but…
It’s likely your fit will change over time, especially if you are newer to riding aero or doing triathlon.
it’s quite possible that over time, as fitness and ability improve, you will end up changing for a longer or shorter stem or more forward or back or more drop or less, a higher or lower saddle height, if only by a cm or two.

So, it’s not like buying a pair of shoes. You can make changes to the bike. Within reason.

So, you need a bike that is the right size to start. And that is not rocket science. Bike manufactures are not stupid (completely). They know what the shape of the average population is. They make bikes to fit the averages. All you need to do is get the right size to start with and be prepared to make changes as you go. Or get a good fit and maybe make fewer changes as you go.

Now, once you know you size you look at models and decide what you want. Do you want one built for very forward position - designed to be ridden at 78-82* angles or one less aggressive 74-78*. Try to be realistic. Maybe get on a spin bike at the gym and try different set ups and see how it feels. Check your flexibility. Etc.

With almost any bike (that is the right size) you buy you will have room to raise and lower the seat more than enough. You will be able to raise and lower the front end with either spacers or an angled stem. (almost all tri bikes have head tubes too short, they make them that way because people demand them. but if you go to the bike corral of an IM you will see over 80% of the bikes have at least 4cm of spacer or an upward angled stem. it is the rare individual who can not get low enough) You can adjust cockpit with shorter or longer stems. All this can be done within reasonable amounts and it will not affect handling. Probably the most important component to worry about is the aero bars. Many of those are less adjustable. Consider something like the Profile T-2s, they have excellent adjustability and are reasonably priced and lighter than most of the expensive ones.

Then of course, you get the one that you think looks fast. Because that is very important. You look fast then you ride fast, you ride fast you are happier; you are happier you ride more and get faster…

IMHO, it’s easy to get the right size bike. The hard part is having the courage to play with the setting over time. People get a fit and think it’s etched in stone and they can never make adjustments. It’s crazy. Go for a bike fit and you’ll hear the same 4 words about a hunderd times, ‘how does that feel?’ When I got a new saddle, the Adamo, I spent 3 months trying different angles before I had it tuned in. There were plenty of angles that were ok for a while but there was one, or at least one, that was perfect for 112 miles. And i found it - eventually. Bike fit isn’t an experience, it’s a process. And it never ends. At least not while you continue to ride.

good luck, have fun

4

Go to several shops and ride several bikes. You will see a pattern emerge as to which bikes feel right without requiring major changes to be fit to you. You’ll probably notice the bikes which fit best will have similar stack/reach numbers (see the chart here on ST).

As a bonus, you’ll also get a feel for each shop. Some will try hard to make you fit the brand they carry. Some will be concerned with you having the right bike, even if it is not from them, and will recognize that even if you buy elsewhere you can still be a customer for service, supplies, clothing, future bikes, etc. Choose the latter as your LBS.

5

Coaching services are usually the best way to get something that fits you well. Many of the coaches are very knowledgeable, but do not have an affiliation with one company or another for bikes.

The CC fit calc is a good reference guide, but it is just another tool in the box. A real person looking at you on a compu trainer will be able to help you more.

I used to use Bill Peterson from Foot Fitness in Tucson. You can also try Colorado Premier Training and see if they have a coach in your area that can provide you with a fit.

The advise about not looking at the brands that are hot is great advise. Ride the bike that fits you so you can meet your potential.

6

Off the top of my head - The B2 and P3 have close enough stack/reach. The P2 is sized a little different.

If you fit on a P3 or B2 you will NOT fit right on a Kueen K. Low/Long vs Tall/Short. Check the Stack & Reach Tables on ST for measurements. If a B2 or P3 is a good fit you might be a candidate for Trek and Specialized also.

If you fitted in Houston ask for your measurements. There is no good reason they could not give them to you. The Stack & Reach is the starting point. It determines what bikes are in your range for fit.

7

Did you check out the ST retailer DB? http://www.slowtwitch.com/retailers/statelist.php?state=texas

A quick glance shows 4 Houston based shops - none of which I can vouch for, but someone here has…

8

I am not familiar with most of the shops in the Houston area, but I do know Kevin and Jana that run Tri On The Run shop on Memorial Blvd. You should visit them as they have an EXIT fit bike and can get all of your fit charactoristics and then tell you which bikes would best fit you.

9

You are right, I think its frame size I am more concerned about initially, I can always make adjustments as required. Can somebody help me out with size recommendation on say Cervelo P3, Cervelo P2 and Felt B2, Felt B12. My basic measurements are: Total height 67.8 inches (5’7), Inseam 32.5 inches, I tried the competitive cyclist calculator and then took the output to the Cervelo geometry guide and the ST tables as suggested but couldn’t make anything out of the data I had to find my size… I am surely not reading the charts properly so perhaps somebody can help me out?
On top of my basic measurements, the fit calculator’s output was: Top Tube Range: 54.0-56.0, Stem length 8.0-10.0, Saddle-Bottom Bracket position 74.3, Saddle Ground position 99.3. There are other measurements but I assume these might be the most relevant.

10

here’s what i would do:

  1. educate yourself as to the sorts of tools good fitters use. slowtwitch has several articles on this. for example, does the shop have a fit bike? which one? will he use the fit bike to fit you?
  2. ask the fitter to tell you what, specifically, the fit protocol is. not “well, i do fist, or serotta,” but specifically what the steps are.
  3. ask him what the output is. what metrics will you leave the shop with? what coordinates, or numbers?
  4. ask how he matches those coordinates specifically to the sorts of bikes you might want to buy. in other words, if you get a set of fit coordinates, bravo, but what bike(s) does that correspond to?

do not be shy about asking these questions, along with any other questions you think pertinent. if the fitter is frustrated by your questions, move on. if you asked me these questions, i’d say: very good questions. then i’d answer them. if you get halting answers, or bad answers, if your gut says no, then move on.

11

Listen to Slowman. He’s right and he knows way, way more than me.
If that’s not possible and you’re looking for an easier way the break your measurements down as follows and the post them and ask for people who are similar.
Height: 3 components
ground to crotch (barefoot, put a book or something very similar very snugly into the crotch to get the height)
crotch to sternal notch (measer from the ground and subtract the previous number)
ground to head (you already said, 67.8)

Reach: 2 components
stand in front of a table with a pencil in your fist. bend over at the waist so the elbow/forearm are on the table. the elbow is below the shoulder and the elbow is bent 90*.
shoulder to table (from the bony point near the top of the shoulder to the table beside the elbow)
elbow to center finger knuckle (holding the penci like you would grip the aero bars)

I’ll bet you could get a pretty good idea of size from someone similar. The question might be how aggressive do you think you’ll be. What amount of drop do you expect to have.

My quick observation, those numbers (54TT and 10Stem) might be on the long side.
good luck

12

Great input Slowman… I will certainly follow this recommendation before heading out to the local LBS… I would however like a first frame size estimate based on other riders sizes, so here are my answers to bermudabill’s Questions, this would also allow me to get a deal on a second hand bike if I know my starting frame size…

Height: Ground to crotch (32.5), crotch to sternal notch (24.0), ground to head (67.8)
Reach: shoulder to table (14.0), elbow to center finger knuckle (14.5)

13

I’ll give this a bump. Hopefully others will help.

i’ve got 4 inches on you. 2 on the legs and 2 on the torso. My arms are about the same. I’m long torso and short arms/legs.
i’m very comfortable on a large Specialize Transition with a 10cm stem, T-2s. My saddle is 2 cm behind the BB.

Try dropping a PM do Superdave, he works for Felt, if that is what you’re looking for. Also, there are always good bikes on the classified. ask the seller about their size and set up.

good luck

14

If you are interested in getting an unbiased assessment of which bikes you would fit best on then you might want to contact John Cobb. He is only a few hours drive for you and is supposed to be one of the best fitters in the world. He charges about the same as other fitters out there but will take WAY more time to get you set up right than most. He has spent tons of time in the wind tunnel too so he can give a lot of guidance on giving you a fit that is both aero and powerful. He has a fit bike so he can give you all of the info you need prior to purchase. He doesn’t sell bikes (though he has designed some that are currently on the market) and he is an awesome guy. John posts here so just do a search for him and send him a PM.

15

So I was finally able to go today to a LBS that had both Cervelo and Felt and had a ‘good’ fitter… turns out I fit well in both the b12 (52) and the p2 (51), both felt comfortable enough and the fitter said he could dial me in really well in either… Now, I would have liked to see a B2, I want to see up front and personal to see if I really like the color scheme and test ride w/the bayonet fork, I am sort of inclining towards the Felt but would like to see the b2 before pulling the trigger… The problem is that they don’t carry the B2 (and said unlikely they will have it unless somebody actually orders it first! - I don’t understand this, - I need to see/try before I decide if I like/want it, so I tried calling the other Felt dealers in the area and all the same story of not having the B2 in stock or planning on ordering unless its ordered by a customer, SO how will I get to decide if this is the bike I really want and is worth spending over and above the B12 or P2??. I think the b12 is a really nice bike and liked the feel but would ideally want to ride the b2 to be 100% sure of my decision… according to what I heard from the local dealers this will not be possible.

16

bump - 2 questions:

  1. Why doesn’t anybody seem to carry the 2009 B2?
  2. Anybody has experience with both the 2009 B2 and B12 that can tell me if I am really missing out on anything worth while? - I am read Tom’s review of the b12 and some other’s comments and it seems to be a really fine bike - however I hear plenty of good comments about the bayonet fork…
17

Bicycle World and fitness “fit” me on a Cervelo P2SL that was too small because they had it in stock, so, I don’t recomend them.

you could give Tri On The Run a try.

My advice really would be to get something really cheap and used to start with, ride it for a while, and learn more about how you sit on the bike and what size you might need.

So I want to buy a new bike and always read ‘buy the one that fits best’, however I don’t know of where I could go (around the Houston area) to get fitted by and un-biased fitter that could then give me a chart or recommendation or whatever (geometry?) on which bikes would fit me the best… I say this because all shops would likely say ‘if you buy this bike here we fit you for free’ and would try to push their particular bike brand, but I wouldn’t be able to get fitted first and then check on which geometry/brand works best… I am thinking about the lines of Felt B2, Cervelo P2C, P3C, Kuota Kueen-K…

Appreciate the guidance about the right order of events to buy the ‘right’ bike and any recommendation in or around Houston (I actually live North of Houston in the Woodlands area to be more specific).

I just found this Fit calculator on Competitive cyclist and whenever my wife wakes up I will ask her to help me measure myself to input, perhaps this will give me a starting point… anybody used this before and would help me narrow down on brands that might fit?

18

bump - 2 questions:

  1. Why doesn’t anybody seem to carry the 2009 B2?

  2. Anybody has experience with both the 2009 B2 and B12 that can tell me if I am really missing out on anything worth while? - I am read Tom’s review of the b12 and some other’s comments and it seems to be a really fine bike - however I hear plenty of good comments about the bayonet fork…

  3. It is unreasonable to expect a LBS to stock every size of every bike from every company that they carry. It would be way too much inventory. And, in the particular case of the Felt B2 series, they make three different trim levels in that frame. You should be able to find at least one of them, even if it’s not the “standard” B2 that you’re interested in, to try.

  4. Here’s a post I make a few days ago regarding the B2 vs B12 decision that may help…
    http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2218016;search_string=2009%20felt%20b2%20b12;#2218016

Steve

19

what did you end up buying?

20

I’m keeping my Dual. I can’t justify the money for something that’s not going to be any faster.

Steve