IMMT next August will be my first IM. I have done 11 HIMs with those 13.1 mile runs the longest I have done in the 20 years since my last marathon. Should I look to do a late fall marathon this year?
A late fall 2011 marathon basically won’t help you one iota next August.
If you feel you need more experience with the long runs you could do the marathon but its not essential for your training being a year out. you have plenty of time to get some good base miles in and slowly work up the long distance runs. You should be fine.
I did my first IM this year, until the 3 months out from race day my longest runs had also been 13.1 races. No need to do a marathon.
Thanks. I guess I meant mostly from a mental standpoint knowing that physically I wouldn’t benefit from a late fall marathon after winter has passed.
Doing an open marathon is completely unnecessary and totally overrated as IM “prep”.
IF you want to do a fall marathon, that’s one thing - but don’t in any way try to convince yourself it is going to help your IM training nearly a year later.
I agree, a marathon now won’t make any difference for IMMT. Maybe work on building your long runs starting in the new year if you’re worried about the mental factor. That should give you plenty of confidence. Good luck.
you could do an Ironman tomorrow. There, you’re and Ironman. Now what?
My point is, 12 months is a LONG time. All you need to “train” for an IM is 3. Break the next 12 months down into quarters or periods… find something else to train for.
2nd, marathons don’t help. 5ks and 10Ks do. Cycling helps, cycling a lot helps, a lot. Learn to swim. it’s a skill to be learned, not an activity to be participated in. Same with running.
The IM run leg is the same distance as an open marathon, but that’s about all they have in common. The IM is a 10 hour day… you need 10 hours of endurance. 4 hour runs in training do not give you 10 hours of systemic endurance, but a 90 minute swim, 5 hour bike, and 90 minute run get you most of the way there.
if you have a year, put some mental energy into understanding the problem and visualizing how to attack it.
Thanks. I guess I meant mostly from a mental standpoint knowing that physically I wouldn’t benefit from a late fall marathon after winter has passed.
The mental part is a question only you can answer. If it makes you feel better, then do it. It also might give you something to focus on so you don’t burn yourself out trying to swim/bike/run a year out.
In terms of athletic prep, I agree with the others - a marathon this fall won’t do you any good. Your best bet is to identify a training plan you’d like to follow next summer (most start 6 months +/- from your race) then spend the time between now and the start of your plan making sure the first few weeks of the plan will be E-A-S-Y.
Did my first Ironman at CDA… Never ran a marathon. I didnt want to know how bad it hurt.
I finished 12 hours and hit my goal. I did as many masters swims as I could through the winter and was able to clock two 40 min splits on the swim. My previous HIM was 48. So I think it was time well spent.
On the bike I would have added some more speed work. Rode a 6:06. I think I could have improved that by at least 20-30 min with some strength training on the bike. As for the run, I was a tad over 4 hours. I would have logged some more 10-15 milers this time of year to build on in the spring.
The mental side will be ok until you hit the 16 to 20 mile mark. I think that is where you just suck it up and do what you gotta do for the final hour or so of the long day.
Most of all,
Enjoy
If you want to focus one discipline, make it cycling. Increase your cycling and that will do more to improve your IM marathon than running a marathon.
If you want to improve your running, increase the frequency by running 6 days per week.
This might help for the year ahead of you:
Periodization involves many variables including frequency (how ‘often’ you train), duration (how ‘long’ you train for one session), volume (how ‘much’ you train in a given week or cycle) and intensity (how ‘hard’ you train at any given time). From these variables a recipe is created that will hopefully help you reach your peak for the key race(s) you are targeting. There are four to five phases in a given annual training plan, with the variables changing within each phase. Please see the following chart:
The first phase of training is called the Preparation (Prep) Phase. This is a period of time from three to six weeks. It involves performing your aerobic activities at a low heart rate and it helps your body adjust to the rigors of training again. This is also the time to work on your drills for each sport. This would include many of the drills in swimming, isolated leg pedaling in cycling and/or strides in running. The workouts in the Prep Phase are usually short in duration, low in intensity, and may be frequent. The volume for this cycle is low. This period prepares you for the Base Phase.
The Base Phase can last anywhere from twelve to twenty four weeks. The longer this phase lasts usually means the more aerobically fit you are entering your key sessions for the season. The Base Phase runs in three to four week ‘blocks’, and can have up to six blocks within this phase. These would be called Base Phase Two, Three, etc. The amount of blocks you have in this phase is dependent on your training experience. If you are in your first few years of training, the more blocks you do in the base phases, the better off you will be in the long run. This phase continues to focus on increasing your aerobic capacity while improving your efficiency with drills and skill workouts. The intensity in this cycle remains low or non-existent, while the frequency may drop, and the duration of your longer workouts keeps extending itself. The volume in this cycle starts out low, but will eventually be your greatest of the year as you get closer toward the end of your base phase. After the Base Phase has been completed and you get closer to your key races, the next step is the Build Phase.
The Build Phase drops in volume, increases in intensity and may keep the same or drop off in duration. The key to this phase is to become more efficient (faster) at a certain distance or go further in a certain time period. This is done by adding ‘interval’ training to your workouts. These intervals can be repeats in the pool, on the track, or on your bicycle. In this phase, the volume is consistent, the intensity high, and your duration for your long workouts should be at an all year high. This phase lasts about four to eight weeks and comes right before the big race. Before we get to the big race, we do something called ‘peaking’.
The Peak Phase and ‘peaking’ itself is a very tricky thing to do. Basically, you are trying to bring together your whole season for one or two important races. It could be the local triathlon where you need to beat your training partner, or it could be a qualifier for the World Championships. Either way, you want to perform your best. In order to peak for the race, we taper down our training. We cut back to let our bodies rest and restore itself. Our volume is low, our intensity is high, and our duration is short. Frequency for some is quite high, as some athletes like to keep their ‘feel’ for the water or keep their running ‘rhythm’. Others don’t have such problems and cut back the frequency as well. This is when training is personal choice. After your race, and hopefully successful racing season, you move into the final phase of the year, the Transition Phase.
The Transition Phase is a time to just kick back, and do something other than triathlon. It can mean a time to do nothing for a few weeks, or it could mean the time of the year that you try out some new sports that don’t involve swim, bike, and run. Toward the end of this phase, you want to start organizing your plans for the upcoming season. A new Prep Phase will almost be upon you and you get to do it all over again.
This might help for the year ahead of you:
Periodization involves many variables including frequency (how ‘often’ you train), duration (how ‘long’ you train for one session), volume (how ‘much’ you train in a given week or cycle) and intensity (how ‘hard’ you train at any given time). From these variables a recipe is created that will hopefully help you reach your peak for the key race(s) you are targeting. There are four to five phases in a given annual training plan, with the variables changing within each phase. Please see the following chart:
The first phase of training is called the Preparation (Prep) Phase. This is a period of time from three to six weeks. It involves performing your aerobic activities at a low heart rate and it helps your body adjust to the rigors of training again. This is also the time to work on your drills for each sport. This would include many of the drills in swimming, isolated leg pedaling in cycling and/or strides in running. The workouts in the Prep Phase are usually short in duration, low in intensity, and may be frequent. The volume for this cycle is low. This period prepares you for the Base Phase.
The Base Phase can last anywhere from twelve to twenty four weeks. The longer this phase lasts usually means the more aerobically fit you are entering your key sessions for the season. The Base Phase runs in three to four week ‘blocks’, and can have up to six blocks within this phase. These would be called Base Phase Two, Three, etc. The amount of blocks you have in this phase is dependent on your training experience. If you are in your first few years of training, the more blocks you do in the base phases, the better off you will be in the long run. This phase continues to focus on increasing your aerobic capacity while improving your efficiency with drills and skill workouts. The intensity in this cycle remains low or non-existent, while the frequency may drop, and the duration of your longer workouts keeps extending itself. The volume in this cycle starts out low, but will eventually be your greatest of the year as you get closer toward the end of your base phase. After the Base Phase has been completed and you get closer to your key races, the next step is the Build Phase.
The Build Phase drops in volume, increases in intensity and may keep the same or drop off in duration. The key to this phase is to become more efficient (faster) at a certain distance or go further in a certain time period. This is done by adding ‘interval’ training to your workouts. These intervals can be repeats in the pool, on the track, or on your bicycle. In this phase, the volume is consistent, the intensity high, and your duration for your long workouts should be at an all year high. This phase lasts about four to eight weeks and comes right before the big race. Before we get to the big race, we do something called ‘peaking’.
The Peak Phase and ‘peaking’ itself is a very tricky thing to do. Basically, you are trying to bring together your whole season for one or two important races. It could be the local triathlon where you need to beat your training partner, or it could be a qualifier for the World Championships. Either way, you want to perform your best. In order to peak for the race, we taper down our training. We cut back to let our bodies rest and restore itself. Our volume is low, our intensity is high, and our duration is short. Frequency for some is quite high, as some athletes like to keep their ‘feel’ for the water or keep their running ‘rhythm’. Others don’t have such problems and cut back the frequency as well. This is when training is personal choice. After your race, and hopefully successful racing season, you move into the final phase of the year, the Transition Phase.
The Transition Phase is a time to just kick back, and do something other than triathlon. It can mean a time to do nothing for a few weeks, or it could mean the time of the year that you try out some new sports that don’t involve swim, bike, and run. Toward the end of this phase, you want to start organizing your plans for the upcoming season. A new Prep Phase will almost be upon you and you get to do it all over again.
The 90’s just called and they want their copy of Friel’s TTB back.
Good response.
Find hills and ride and ride and ride… Tremblant is a very hilly course and the better your legs are post bike, the better your run will be.
I wouldn’t bother with a fall Marathon, but I’d consider a spring one.
I agree with the other posters that racing a marathon and the run leg of an IM are very different. Since it sounds like
you have a few decades of training behind you… the recovery demands of long runs can hurt your training
overall. Cycling and swimming are basically ‘free’ as far as joint and bone stress… so older guys are well served
to focus there. I speak from experience.
A spring Mary however, will give you a focus over the winter. Depending on where you live, spending a winter logging
miles on a trainer can really suck…but a two how run in the cool winter air is a treat. You’ll get a chance to refine your
running, build some good fitness and have the confidence of knowing your run is dialed.
Then come March and better weather, you’ll be ready to hit the bike with a great base (and a smaller gut) and can just work on shorter, speedier
running when it is time to enter your IM training for real. I ran a March marathon and now only spend about 20% of my training time
running (50% Bike, 30% swim…)
thanks.
when I respond like that, I’m responding with the voice of ST… all the things I’ve learned on here and elsewhere. Definitely not original information.
I don’t understand why this is so 90’s. I thought people still follow that sequence of periodization. If this isn’t the case, please enlighten me.
IMMT was my first ever full. Until July my run mileage was baring in the double digits total for the week. I swam open water for at least an hour every other day and road a lot. Starting in July I did some longer runs once a week getting up to 18 miles for my longest. All this OS to preface that my run time at IMMT was 20 minutes north of my one and only stand alone marathon, and with better nutrition at the start of the run I likely would have only been a few mintues north of my stand alone time.
Short story get to t2 as fresh as you can and knowing that you can knock down the run. For me that leant being comfortable with the swim and prudent on the bike.
No. Spend your time on building a plan with or without a coach and start to mentally prepare for it…then tackle it.