I’ve owned PC’s for 13 days. Today was my 6th or 7th ride on them. In less than 2 weeks I’ve progressed from struggling thru 2 minute increments to a full blown 34 min non-stop time trial. My tri team (www.michiganoutlaws.com) has a thursday group ct ride and today was a 12 miler in order to get an LT reading. This was way earlier than I was planning on doing something like this as I’m still in the adaption phase (I think). I rode the same course moderately hard on tuesday. That was my first plus 30 min ride without stopping. Todays results amazed even me:
34 minutes at 227 watts avg. My previous best wattage ride (217w) was nearly 2 years ago. My avg rpm was much lower ( as I expected) at 75 rpm. Does this suggest that I am predisposed to a lower cadence than most other riders? Most of my teammates (ala Lance A) preacher higher cadences. I am always stuggling to pedal more than 86 rpm or so(on regular cranks)…I seem to fatigue more easily at higher rpm’s. But I’ve always tried to keep a higher rpm at my teammates urging. But today’s ride really honed in on the powercrank rpm “sweet spot” for me which was in the 70-74 range. Anything higher or lower was much more fatiguing. Since I plan on riding nothing but the pc’s until my first race in MAy, how will this newly found info transfer out in the real world?
Am I “adapting” more quickly than most on the pc’s? I’m still learning to get out of the saddle and I am definately not comfortable in the aero position yet. So there are 2 things to work on…But I am very anxious to see how continued training on pc’s will impact my racing this summer.
Any feedback regarding optimal cadences and what I should focus on is appreciated!
Congratulations. I would put your adaption at about average, maybe a little above average. I am a little surprised that you were able to ride non-stop for 34 minutes in two weeks but people adapt pretty quickly and you weren’t trying to go 4 hours.
Don’t worry about cadence just yet. Your optimum cadence on the PC’s will slowly come up, and with it will come up your wattage as you develop your new muscle endurance. Worry more about developing your PC endurance for now. Your PC cadence sweet spot will become evident to you (as it did this time) with time and don’t listen to those who are telling you to ride what is optimum for them.
You’re doing great. I would not make any assumptions on your optimal cadence yet, having used PCs for a short time. Initially, I stuggled beyond 80 RPM. After 1 year, I ride in my “old regular” 95-105 and it seems to be comfortable as it was previously.
I’m wondering what the benefits are that you (and lots of other riders) associate with Power Cranks?
The only metric that makes any sense to me to track on the bike (aside from TT times on an identical course under similar conditions) is “sustainable power output” over a desired length of time. If you don’t measure sustainable power, what metric will you be using as the “before vs. after” to determine what benefit you are deriving from your PCs?
Anyone else have metrics they have used to determine that PCs provided real benefit as a training tool?
What I used in my testing was max power, as that is easier to measure than sustainable power, at least it takes less time.
Others have used sustainable power, times on known circuits, etc.
When it comes to running, people generally rely on training pace and repeat times on known courses.
There has only been one study that looked at these in a scientific random controlled fashion which looked at cycling efficiency or wattage for a given HR or VO2 over an hour. A link to the abstract of that study is on my web page. They showed a 10% increase in cycling efficiency after 6 weeks in a one hour submaximal test.
Goodgawdawmatty…to say you’re doing fine is like saying the sun is warm! Way to go! As others have said, don’t worry about your cadence. You may or may not get back to your old rpm. Guess what? Your old rpm’s may not have been “more efficient” anyway. Only strict testing would ferret that information out. As a road racer, I’d say, heck yeah, get those rpm’s up. As a time trialer…I doubt higher rpms actually get you to the finish faster. There again, don’t go by how you FEEL you are doing, you have to time it. I was very surprised when I found out my 105-108 “very smooth” rpm’s were proven to not only be slower than riding a course in the mid 80’s, but the smoothness was artificially being accomplished by an inefficient pedal stroke. A coach pointed out the lower rpms were better for me, PC’s quickly demonstrated my inefficient pedal stroke.
I just rode my PC’s for an hour on a resistance trainer…with only 2 minutes of rest in the hour. I haven’t been training much at all the past 4 months, and I feel like an old Baptist that came back to church. It was very uncomfortable at first, but, once I settled in, the old hymns sounded familiar and comforting. I hope I’m not going to back-slide from here, and will be coming back to the Church of the “Round” Pedal-Stroke religiously. I know I found that regular attendance was heavenly in regard to my speed last year! Do I hear an AMEN?!!
There has only been one study that looked at these in a scientific random controlled fashion which looked at cycling efficiency or wattage for a given HR or VO2 over an hour. A link to the abstract of that study is on my web page. They showed a 10% increase in cycling efficiency after 6 weeks in a one hour submaximal test.
I’d like to look at the abstract – what is the URL for your web page?
Nice to see a scientific study, but it’s pretty simplistic (1hr/day, 3x/wk isn’t much training and % improvements can look huge when the initial denominator is low). I saw similar benefits (particularly faster runs) by improving my bike positioning (particularly raising/moving back my saddle) to more fully engage my hamstrings and glutes. My LP marathon time dropped from 3:19 in 2000 to 3:07 in 2003, with fairly similar run training both years.
If I had just trained with PCs in my old saddle position, I’m not sure that I would have become a more efficient cyclist. Also, I know from experience that engaging my hamstrings in a marathon is much more effective than engaging my hip flexors (which I can also train more directly with less impact by water running).
Sounds like the typical “hard to believe” this could possibly happen from someone who has never trained on them scenario.
First, in the study, the demoninator wasn’t particularly low as the study required 3 races in the last 6 months to be eligible. These were not elites but they were not novices. Then, it was controlled with a similar group doing similar training on regular cranks. While they saw improvement, it was not significant and the PC group was significant compared to themselves and the non-PC group. third, 6 weeks, 3 times a week is not much time to see such improvement. It even surprised me. Even I would not have predicted it. But, the data is the data.
This study simply substantiates the anecdotal reports.
Your scepticism is one reason why I offer a 60 day moneyback guarantee. You can refuse to have an open mind or you can let them speak for themselves.
Mike, what do you know about PC’s “from experience”? So many people do the same thing as you are doing…talking about something with which they have no experience. Get a set, pedal yourself silly for a while, see if they help you. If they don’t, send them back before 60 days. (Or, if you are really skeptical, get some for a competative buddy, and you two train together for 60 days…your buddy on PC’s and you on regular cranks. See who improves the most.)
Please don’t forget to let us know what you found out from your experience with them. If you try them for the 60 days and think they were a big waste of time and money, please feel free to tell us. (BTW…you’d be the first to do so.) On the other hand, you may find yourself in an ever-growing number of surprised and grateful PC enthusiasts.
Sounds like the typical “hard to believe” this could possibly happen from someone who has never trained on them scenario.
Your scepticism …
Appreciate the clarification on the study (that info wasn’t in the abstract), and I think if you read my posts you won’t find any skepticism – I have a fairly long history of experimentation in all three sports going back about 25 years.
When I do take you up on your trial offer, I’ll use sustainable power output as a metric and know that I’ll already be in an optimal position on my bike.
Anyone slapping on PowerCranks without first developing efficiency along the entire kinetic chain (cleat position, crank length, saddle height, fore/aft location) might be getting some benefit, but won’t be riding as well as they could be.
Mike, what do you know about PC’s “from experience”?
Engaging my hamstrings and glutes more effectively on the bike (developed with improved bike positioning) helped more for the longer distances.
I’m not averse to finding out if PCs would help extend these benefits even more – I’m only pointing out that there are other mechanisms that can also deliver those same benefits.
mpl wrote: Anyone slapping on PowerCranks without first developing efficiency along the entire kinetic chain (cleat position, crank length, saddle height, fore/aft location) might be getting some benefit, but won’t be riding as well as they could be.
I certainly agree. However, PowerCranks may force you to change positioning for at least a while. It’s all a dynamic process where change may be needed as improvements are realized. It is always nice to have someone with your desire for proof, using a scientific mind, to give them a whirl for a month or two. I’d love for someone like Kraig Willet (the Redshoe experiment guy) to train on PC’s a while and see what he comes up with in this regard.
Nice to see a scientific study, but it’s pretty simplistic (1hr/day, 3x/wk isn’t much training and % improvements can look huge when the initial denominator is low). I saw similar benefits (particularly faster runs) by improving my bike positioning (particularly raising/moving back my saddle) to more fully engage my hamstrings and glutes. My LP marathon time dropped from 3:19 in 2000 to 3:07 in 2003, with fairly similar run training both years.
If I had just trained with PCs in my old saddle position, I’m not sure that I would have become a more efficient cyclist. Also, I know from experience that engaging my hamstrings in a marathon is much more effective than engaging my hip flexors (which I can also train more directly with less impact by water running).
Thoughts?
Mike, it is interesting that you point out that your run split improved by moving your saddle up and back (contrary to what FIST would suggest). I personally never got comfortable riding at 78 degrees, and seem to have my best rides at around 76 or 75 and my run off the bike seems to be identical in all cases. PC’s did tell me that any further back (74) and I lost power on the bike and also had slower runs.
Anyway, a stud like you would not likely experience massive gains using PC’s, but they are always worth a try for the 60 day period. Like Yaquicarbo suggested, we doubt if you will return them as pretty well all users that I know of have had appreciable gains in both the bike and run.