Quick background followed by my question: I am 40 years old and a “newbie” again. I was in 4 tris back in the mid 80s, sprint distance, but want to try and return. I was a high school distance swimmer, so swimming is no problem, except I guess I have to figure out the wetsuit thing. I picked up a bike that is suitable for now and am just starting to build some miles. My problem lies in the run. In 1992 I blew out my right knee, ACL and partial MCL plus some cartilage. I had it repaired by a pro football team Dr, and I guess it is as good as it is gonna get. The problem is it is not that good. My Dr. says the pain is going to come and go, and at some point I will be a total knee replacement patient, but that would effectively end any running based on what I have read. Now I can sprint around and I tried again to run and build some miles on the new spongy local HS track with some decent new running shoes and after about 5 weeks of easy jogging was up to 3 miles, then it hits. Knee is VERY sore and stiffens up making me pretty much useless. I should say that there is zero pain from the bike. Oh yeah, being that I typically have not been able to much and not having pool access for a while, I had blossomed into a porker at 6’5” and 284. Since I started this 6 weeks ago I am down to 277 and I think I should continue to drop and get around 250 by end of summer. I know this will take a lot of pressure off the knee, but I have to do something to get there first. Not being familiar with the aqua-jogging thing, is that a doable substitute for running to enable me to compete in sprint up to maybe Oly distance if I am getting my cardio built up in the swimming and cycling (pool now available). I can deal with the pain one day at a time, I just don’t want to repeatedly damage the knee so I have to quit altogether. Should I try actually running maybe once a week with the aqua jogging, or should I just concentrate on the swim and bike and just limp through the run since I will only typically be going 5K? I have no illusions of grandeur at this point, just want to get through a few this year, see if I can lose some weight and make the whole thing go easier. I am not worried about winning anything, but I don’t want to look like an invalid either. Opinions from any and all please.
your story is in a very erie way exactly the same as mine in all respects. However I am more than a year ahead of you.
I am very cautious about my knee. When I first started all I did was run on a high quality treadmill because it was less tramatic to the knee. But I still hurt a ton after running, particularly the next morning.
Ice therapy was almost a daily must (I still do it as much as possible, but it takes soo much time). Loosing weight, could not drop enough. Strategic use of ibuprofen helped a lot.
today I am down 85+ lbs. Running is much easier, but can still hurt. I do very little sprint type work outs. Avoid hill training to a large degree. Far less pain the next day. But I still don’t log the miles that many do.
If you are careful and willing to put up with a very difficult first year or so, things can work out.
Do you do any of the aqua jogging stuff, or will that just be a waste of time? It looks incredibly boring (this mind you coming from a distance swimmer). I am thinking for the sprints to just wing it on the run with maybe one jog a week or even less.
Good luck. I’m a bit younger than you (32) but i had a similar knee injury about 12 years ago (full tear ACL, partial tear of Lateral Collateral, and damage to meniscus. I never got my knee surgically repaired, because of the extensive recovery time required and at the time I was swimming for the University.
I have had very little pain, occasional aches and once in a while it will give a little. That’s very rare though, maybe once every couple of years. I am a prime candidate for arthritis later on.
Couple of things I would suggest, in no particular order:
Before you start running, lose some weight. The lighter you can be, the less stress you’ll put your knee under.
When you do start running, do not run with long strides. Focus on a short, quick stride, so you don’t plant your foot in front of your body. Don’t try to go too fast, or too far too soon.
Be careful running downhills.
To lose the weight, I’d suggest putting in the miles in the pool and on the bike, as well as really restricting your calorie intake. A trick I learned was to divide my plate into half. half the plate is for meat and starch. The other half is for steamed or raw veggies, no butter. If you want seconds, only go back for the veggies.
As soon as you feel pain / soreness inside your knee, stop. ice the knee, pop a couple of Advils, and put your feet up.
Building up hamstring strength is very important for stabilising your knee joint.
Have you been back to the Doc? There may be a bit of damage in there that should be cleaned up.
I have been back and had it scoped again in '98, and I ususally go in once a year to get my Vicodin prescription filled and have him check under the hood. He says pretty much the same thing: It is going to get sore and there isn’t much you can do about it. The meniscus is just going away and getting chewed up. I could get it scoped again probably, but each time he cuts out a little more cartilage then there is less left. I feel pretty certain I will be able to lose down about 1-2 pounds a week like I am doing so far for a while. 220-230 is a pretty decent weight for me, I don’t have huge muscles but am pretty large framed so I doubt I will ever be less than that. I pretty much am just carrying the classic beer belly, although I do not drink at all. Just my body type I guess. I have only run on the track, with very short strides as you describe, definitely no road so no downhills, but I am going to suspend it. I have a cryo-cuff left from surgery so I can ice OK. I use ibuprofen and naproxen on his suggestion too. THe naproxen works really well for me so far. I guess I just need to stay away from the track and let whatever happens on the run in the race happen. Thanks for your input!
never did the aqua jog - seems like it might be good rehab, but I’m not convinced it would help someone like me whoes run is pathetic.
What about an elliptical trainer? I think those are zero impact.
I’ve found that Aqua-jogging can be helpful. I’ve done it during injuries, ITB, heel spur, etc., when I couldn’t run. I don’t think I gained fitness, but it allowed me to come back pretty close to form.
I still use it as recovery, i.e., after a race, or if I’m too run-down for anything else. You should give it a try - definitely wear your heart monitor though - it helps to make sure that it’s not a complete waste of time.
You should try and control your weight with proper diet. If you knee is shot then triathlons may not be right for you. Stick to your Swimming and Archery and enjoy those.
You know, I see a lot of questions like this posed. You remind me of my brother somewhat. He’s raring to go, but has no base or idea of what to do. He made it through a local 5k and now he wants to do an Ironman?
You are only 40 years old. Instead of thinking about the end goal, which is racing, I would think about what it would take to get to the starting line. The first thing you should think about is losing some serious weight. With your medical history, you can’t run well at your weight. You should be aiming at getting your weight down to the 220 you think is good for you. Instead of trying to get to the starting line this year, I would take a longer term approach. Where do you want to be when you are 42? Do you want to be healthy, fit, and able to do triathlon, or do you want to have a blown out knee, weight gain, and a lot of disallusionment because you tried to do too much, too soon?
If I were a coach, I’d get you to a dietician/nutritionist, and start you on a weight loss program that makes sense. Nothing radical, just eating right, and blending in a good amount of aerobic exercise. Start with what you know - swimming. Work with other low-impact activities such as cycling, or even walking. Once you’ve got your weight down to 220 or so (whether it be this year, next, or the following), think about trying to run.
Think about the diet and exercise as a training program FOR LIFE, not for triathlon. Triathlon will always be around, and if you can’t race this year, there is always next year. What is the rush? Take care of losing weight and building a good aerobic base, and you will be less injury prone and more likely to succeed. Good luck.
Quick background followed by my question: I am 40 years old and a ?newbie? again. I was in 4 tris back in the mid 80s, sprint distance, but want to try and return. I was a high school distance swimmer, so swimming is no problem, except I guess I have to figure out the wetsuit thing. I picked up a bike that is suitable for now and am just starting to build some miles. My problem lies in the run. In 1992 I blew out my right knee, ACL and partial MCL plus some cartilage. I had it repaired by a pro football team Dr, and I guess it is as good as it is gonna get. The problem is it is not that good. My Dr. says the pain is going to come and go, and at some point I will be a total knee replacement patient, but that would effectively end any running based on what I have read. Now I can sprint around and I tried again to run and build some miles on the new spongy local HS track with some decent new running shoes and after about 5 weeks of easy jogging was up to 3 miles, then it hits. Knee is VERY sore and stiffens up making me pretty much useless. I should say that there is zero pain from the bike. Oh yeah, being that I typically have not been able to much and not having pool access for a while, I had blossomed into a porker at 6?5? and 284. Since I started this 6 weeks ago I am down to 277 and I think I should continue to drop and get around 250 by end of summer. I know this will take a lot of pressure off the knee, but I have to do something to get there first. Not being familiar with the aqua-jogging thing, is that a doable substitute for running to enable me to compete in sprint up to maybe Oly distance if I am getting my cardio built up in the swimming and cycling (pool now available). I can deal with the pain one day at a time, I just don?t want to repeatedly damage the knee so I have to quit altogether. Should I try actually running maybe once a week with the aqua jogging, or should I just concentrate on the swim and bike and just limp through the run since I will only typically be going 5K? I have no illusions of grandeur at this point, just want to get through a few this year, see if I can lose some weight and make the whole thing go easier. I am not worried about winning anything, but I don’t want to look like an invalid either. Opinions from any and all please.
3darcher2,
This is insanity. Get a grip. Not all of us can do everything we desire to do. We learn to live with that fact or learn how to live the experience vicariously.
You say a knee replacement in the future is inevitable. Running, a high impact activity, will accelerate the deterioration of your knee. Accepting your limitations will extend the life of your natural knee. You should give that some serious thought. If you were diagnosed with congestive heart failure, would you be trying to squeeze in as many triathlons as possible before you heart gave out or was replaced? You need some counselling even if its just a 2 by 4 over the head. Duh, wake up, there’s someone at the door.
Take up low impact sports. Cycling and swimming. Compete. Set personal records or challenge for age group records.
Artificial knees are not all they are cracked up to be! You won’t be running on one. You won’t be cycling competitively on one either.
Foolish Tri Guy,
Thanks, that was the kind of info I was looking for. I guess I should have worded my question differently or something. The questions wasn’t “Do you think I can participate in triathlons?”. It was really “How much will my run be affected by not actually running in training?” I know that there are times when injuries have forced nearly all of you from being able to run at some point. If you are in decent shape with a good base for the other two legs, how much slower per mile do you think you would run and how far would be too far? FTG, you gave me more or less what I was looking for.
Those of you superior soapboxers, I never asked for life advice. I didn’t just wake up one day and thought to myself, “triathlons are neat, I’ll do a few”. I stated I have done some before, and lest I imprinted in your head I am a hobbling cripple, far from it. I will participate and finish, and eventually I will be competitive for my age and weight. I know that repeatedly running day in and day out will damage my knee. I also know that walking down the hall at work some days has hurt more than ten miles of hiking the next day. So I asked about alternative training. I have participated in many sports, coached some up to the high school level, and been competitive at the national level in a couple. I didn’t really feel the need to spout off all this stuff, but did it occur to you that just maybe I had already weighed those options as I have for the last 12 years? There are hundreds of guys and girls walking around pro and NCAA rosters in a lot worse shape knee-wise than I am. It it their choice.
Ben, you need a grip. As you can see on this forum, you can get hit by a car and killed next ride, or blow a tire and crash over a cliff, etc. Real possibilities. Does everyone hang up their bikes and quit? Duh, no. You weigh the risks and you take your chances. While your at it, you should probably drop swimming, you could drown. By the way, your signature and your thinking just don’t mesh.
Too bad this is the only tri site I can get to at work thanks to the firewalls, huh?
See you on the course. :o)
Being a slightly heavier than average guy myself (5’7" and 184lbs) I can relate (not completely) to your situation. Had a pretty severe back injury a few years back that nearly kept me out for good. Had people offered the same advice they gave you I might have. Thankfully I didn’t listen to the naysayers and am slowly (one super sprint race at a time) making my way back to where I want to be. That said I have been lucky enough to never suffer any major knee related injuries (knocking on wood as I type)…I did hear something today that made me shudder though. For every 10lbs of added weight you have on your body it equates to 40lbs of stress on your knees. Yikes. Do I think you can do a triathlon again? You’re damn right I do…you wouldn’t be typing if you didn’t believe it too…which is more than half the battle. Is it going to take some doing? Sure as hell. I’d really opt for water running (or at the very least running on really soft grass or the like) between now and your key race though. Did a little bit of it while off on back injury and while it can never really translate to and equal amount of running it does provide a great low impact workout that does work a lot of the same muscles. Can you do a 5km only doing water running? I don’t see why you can’t. Can you be as fast as if you’d run on dry land? Probably not (unless you take into account that you will still have knees to run on after water running)…but I say…screw 'em all and go for it. Worse case scenario…you get to the run and have to walk some or all of it. Studies say that 99% of the population can’t run 3 miles without stopping…and even less than that can swim a half mile uninterupted. You’ll be doing it all in one day. Lose some more of that weight and your knees will thank you. Keep us posted.
I do not have quite the same damage to my knee, only a mostly blown MCL and about half a patella tendon from separate rugby injuries. I had it scoped once, but the doctor did not find what he expected to find before going in, so he just cleaned up what was floating around inside instead of fixing the expected cartilage damage. When I hear that someone has just had knee surgery, I point to mine and say something like, no marathons before surgery, six and counting afterwards. Since there is much less damage inside my knee, my experience might not tell you much about your future, but here are my thoughts.
Lose weight, but you know that already.
Do a lot of work on the bike. There is no impact and it makes the parts around your knee that are not torn up a lot stronger.
Exercise will generally make your knee work better. You may be somewhat more likely to run into overuse problems (my patella tendon acts up from time to time), but as long as you are careful when building running and biking mileage, your knee will probably work better with exercise.
Ice your knee frequently. Mine has an ice bag wrapped around it now.
When you swim, do not do breastroke anymore. I mean, the stroke is okay to rest on a 400 IM between back and free, but do you really need it?
Good luck, and if you do it right, your knee replacement might happen later rather than sooner.
For a sprint - I think I’d be faster by just swimming and cycling a lot. Its a 5K. My 5K run time changes very little with training. My 2 cents: swim and bike a lot - don’t run. Race sprints.
Olympic or longer - you need to do some running to race well yet an oly is very doable with no run training… you can jog a 10K off no training fairly easily. Just hammer the swim and bike and jog the run and have fun. I just say “good job” to everyone as they run by me…
Will running accelerate your knee’s DJD? No evidence on that but I think if your knee swells/gets inflammed - that can’t be good. Losing a lot of weight will do wonders for slowing your knees decline. I agree with losing weight first - run later…
Good luck - do what you want and have fun.
Dave
3darcher2,
For the smoker, they are his lungs, for the alcoholic, it is his liver, for you, they are your knees.
Good luck.