has anyone read this? Comments are interesting, as well as the “Part 2” and comments to that post.
http://www.trainingbible.com/...veryones-winner.html
this sounds alot what we talk about here on ST (Dev Paul, Fleck, etc.) regarding short course racing, but as a follower of Joe’s blog, I thought the post was a bit out of character, despite agreeing with him.
“Most people couldn’t sit in front of their televisions for 17 hours…”
I think he is seriously underestimating the fitness of couch potatoes!
I loved the blog post, but here’s my favorite zinger from the comments:
"I understand where you’re coming from, but perhaps if you really want to do something about this, you (as the biggest coach in the business) could encourage athletes who come to you to follow your “five-year Ironman plan? Not to be disrespectful, but you lose a bit of credibility when you complain about a system you’re working to propagate.”
This reminds me of a bit of information from the Gold Rush of 1849 in California… by and large the ones who got rich were the pick, shovel, and cart sellers, middlemen, con-artists, etc. and not the actual gold diggers and finders.
I must admit, my third triathlon was an Ironman, so maybe I shouldn’t talk!
Link to article.
HERE.
Your link wasn’t working for me.
I propose a new sig line for Fleck- “Perhaps I’ve become an old curmudgeon who longs for the good, old days”
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One other thought. I overheard someone talking after IM Louisville about their race. They had been attempting to qualify and went out too hard. Somewhere along the run course they lost the ability to run a straight line. They sat down on the curb on someone’s suggestion and passed out. I finished, they DNF’d. But who really has something to be proud of? I raced for the finish line, holding back (aka “pacing”) when I worried the effort would result in me DNF’ing. They raced for the clock and held nothing back. I have a lot more respect for what they did.
for me, this was the killer comment that followed friel’s article:
Have you ever seen the finish faces on rowers who go to the World Masters races? Everyone but the winner is sad. No one is happy. And at 40, everyone laments about how slow they are now, compared to their varsity times.
Compare this to the finish faces at an Ironman. Wow – you don’t get any happier than that.
Age groupers find value in finishing, and finishing an Ironman makes age-groupers happy.
Just check out rowing regattas sometime, and see what an AG sport looks like when all you have is your finish time.
it doesn’t get any truer than that.
confused, where’s the “everyone’s a winner” idea in it? All he’s saying is that speed in short stuff is just as admirable - more more admirable - than a 17h IM.
Interesting blog. I know of a couple that did an IM as their one and only triathlon. For some strange reason, a lot of people consider a 16:59 IM a far greater achievement than a super fast sprint or oly.
I agree with him.
There was a similar post written by the Race director of Musselman. I don’t have a link to the original article but someone copied it here
http://www.wellsphere.com/running-article/an-interesting-article-on-ironmen-and-half-ironmen/585783
I agree, the post seemed totally out of character (at least as much as you can determine “character” from reading someone’s blog). I also thought it (Part 1) was the best thing I’ve ever read that Joe has written. I was a bit disappointed that he felt the need to “clarify” himself in Part 2. I thought that Part 1 was very clear and that Part 2 was a bit of a concession to the fact that he runs a business and that Part 1 probably pissed a lot of people - aka “potential clients” - off. Anyway, if you just read Part 1, I think it’s excellent.
You have much more to be proud of, you paced your race taking into account the limits of your fittness and training. The other guys went out to go as hard as thye could and put themselves in danger and achived very little.
Racing hard is something to be proud of, if you have the miles in the tank and are pacing properly. If you can ride at x watts but go out x plus y watts because you want to qualify, then how is that smart or something to be proud off. Racing at a pace that you no you can’t sustain is not smart as you are guaranteeing a walk
Although Yknot didn’t say one way or the other, I did not take his post to be talking about the weekend warrior who goes out knowing his fitness allows “x” watts but stupidly goes out and rides “x plus y” on raceday or races at a pace they “know” (or should know) can’t be sustained.
Although I’m about 1,000,000 miles from KQ, I do believe that the field has come to be so competitive that many of those hoping for Kona slots have to find the razor thin margin between pushing themselves to their physical limits versus crossing over the limit and crashing. That can be both an art and a science, and is much easier said than done. Those people who push themselves to find out where those limits are will occasionally learn their limits the hard way. And I, for one, respect those people.
Interesting blog. I know of a couple that did an IM as their one and only triathlon. For some strange reason, a lot of people consider a 16:59 IM a far greater achievement than a super fast sprint or oly.
Its because most people think they can do an Oly, and most people don’t think they can do an IM. People are more enamored with distance than speed in endurance sports. Everyone knows who Dean Karnazes is but no one knows who won Boston.
I can’t really say I admire the guy who tries and DNF’s over the guy who finishes on 80%. In the end of the day, we all love the sport, but some of us just aren’t there for KQ, if you do the training, you’ll know where you are it, and if you’re having to blow yourself up to get it; chances are the numbers aren’t close to adding up.
I see what you are saying, the guy pushing for the last second is pushing the envelope to squeeze every last second to get the kona slot and that is different from the guy who rides 5:30 and runs 6 hours.
I am not so sure that the Kona Qualifying guys are doing the right thing. You train hard push yourself in training and build up races and you find and hopefully through training improve your limits.
Regardless of whether you are a 16 hour guy or a 9:45 guy pushing past those limits is more than likely going to end in a world of hurt. At the pointy end of the field I guess that might mean going for it and blowing up. If you have the fittness to do (;45 but ride like 9 hours in pursuit of a Kona slot, is that smart, brave or is it better to race and the train harder for another year and qualify next year
for me, this was the killer comment that followed friel’s article:
Have you ever seen the finish faces on rowers who go to the World Masters races? Everyone but the winner is sad. No one is happy. And at 40, everyone laments about how slow they are now, compared to their varsity times.
Compare this to the finish faces at an Ironman. Wow – you don’t get any happier than that.
Age groupers find value in finishing, and finishing an Ironman makes age-groupers happy.
Just check out rowing regattas sometime, and see what an AG sport looks like when all you have is your finish time.
it doesn’t get any truer than that.
same thing in running - that’s why I switched to tri ;-(
same thing in running - that’s why I switched to tri ;-(
the same observation also helps explain the growth in ultradistance running (and cycling, to some extent). there’s no point commiserating about how slow you are now over 200 miles on the bike or 75 miles on foot compared to when you were 19-24 if you ever did anything close to those distances back then. instead, you can simply enjoy the distance, to the extent that such a thing is humanly possible. Maybe “enjoy completing the distance” is more accurate 
those were my thoughts as well. A great post yet very out of the norm for him, as least as far as I can tell from reading his blog.
I’m a bit torn here… I love the post, and respect Mr. Friel. I’ve devoured his Training Bible and Going Long, using it as a foundation for my own analytical and serious approach to training. But, I think I know enough now to see behind the curtain a little bit, both from the perspectives of the style of training he prescribes and the business model that he follows. I’d love to see him align the post with his philosophies, or even better, hook up to the juvenation machine and come out hungry with a new approach and take some up and comers to the top.
All in all though, an excellent post.
This could be equally applied to triathlon. Ironman distance is triathlon, any distance less than these you are not a serious triathlete