Etiquette question for Tom D or Ze Gopha

I am thinking about buying a bike because I have been riding the same road, er, tri, well it’s really a Franken-bike for 8 years. I want to get a tri bike and convert my road back to a road. I’m just sick of not quite fitting well in either position… Anyway, I am the type that agonizes over purchases, especially when they are several thousand dollars.

My question lies in the area of etiquette and is based on respect for my LBS owners. When I go in to test new rides, what should I expect?

  • Number of test rides for a given bike?

  • How long of a test ride is ok?

  • How many different bikes?

  • How about adjusting the bike to fit me, is that cool?

  • Any other thoughts?

I like to make well-informed purchases but I don’t want to piss anyone off at the same time. You LBS owners have a lot of money invested in these rides and I feel a little strange asking to take a $3000+ bike out of the shop for a 30 miler, but I know that the longer I have to eval my purchase the greater the chance I will have made the right decision. Thanks for your input.

If your lbs gets miffed that easily stear clear.
If you are ready to drop 3+ g’s on a new bike, they should be pretty darn accomidating.

First off, your kindness and consideration for your local bike shop owner is very nice. I wish I knew who they were so I could pass on to them what a truly valued customer you should be to them. That is very considerate of you.

As for agonizing over a multi-thousand dollar purchase, well, good. You should I think. That is a ton of money and for that amount of money your expectations should be high.

Perhaps if you communicated your concerns and valid questions to your delaer in much the same way you have here I wager they would be not only very apprciative of your concern and consideration, but also be able to address each of your questions. They are good questions.

As some people on this forum already know, I am not a fan of test rides as an evaluation tool to determine which bike to buy. I like a different approach, but that is amtter of opinion and experience. Ultimately, the most important person in the transaction is you. If a test ride is the optimal method to make a bike selection for you, then by all means, do a test ride or series of them.

We got out of the test ride process for a long list of valid reasons ranging from liability to customer safety to theft prevention and, most importantly, because we felt we had developed a better system to assist people in making a more satisfying long range buying decision that takes the guess work out of it (or at least greatly reduces it to almost zero).

I think your concern over your LBS’s investment and welfare is very nice, and I compliment you for it. Good luck with your purchase and be careful on your test ride.

So it wouldn’t be out of line if I were to adjust and ride three or so different bikes for say 30 minutes each, then take another hour at a later date on my favorite just to make sure?

As some people on this forum already know, I am not a fan of test rides as an evaluation tool to determine which bike to buy. I like a different approach, but that is amtter of opinion and experience.
What is your approach?

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/wheels/wheels.shtml

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/store/testdrive.shtml
.

Your last comment and info on your website may have changed what I do here…

My LBS does do test rides, and they are a great bunch of guys, but I have to say I am contemplating taking a trip to visit the family in Michigan (and bikesportmichigan) because I don’t really feel like my guys are that confident in their recommendations based on conversations I have had as they aren’t really a tri shop, more road and mtn…

I really appreciate your concern/approach for getting people on the right bike and customer service like that ranks very highly on my list… We’ll see…

Ok, now, any advice on getting my wife on board with my diabolical plan? Mwahhhahahahahahhaha. I have a feeling I’m on my own with that one…

Plus you don’t have to carry much inventory. Not that that had any bearing on your system :slight_smile:

My ultimate preference would be to do what the “JSG”'s do, which is have no inventory. There are enormous advantages to that approach, and I think the industry in general needs to get lead times to the point where they can actually provide that capability with timely delivery.

I believe the largest Serotta dealer, or one of the largest, is a “Just Some Guy” dealer who does the fittings and orders the bike. The nice things about this is the customer is free from the tendancy of a dealer to “push” what he has the most of.

Another pivotal moment in our decision to stop test rides was safety and liability. We wrestled with a $1 Million dollar lawsuit from a customer injured on a test ride when a car that was speeding and making an illegal turn came across the sidewalk up a driveway and the customer had to make an emergency stop, sustained substantial injuries and sued all parties. They didn’t recover any damages but the difficulty of dealing with the protracted litigation, even though it was insured, was not pleasant or constructive.

I think you are ahead of your time Tom. I work in the procurement dept of a major ($8B) hi-tech company in California and can tell you inventory optimization is a huge issue for us. I don’t have to tell you what a drag inventory is on cash flow and ROI.

You’re asking an etiquette question of a guy who uses duck tape on his handlebars?

You’re asking an etiquette question of a guy who uses duck tape on his handlebars?
Yeah using duck tape on anything but ducks is crazy. Duct tape on the other hand has proven to be useful in many sports…

Obviously, the LBS, or “JSG” would love it if you simply bowed to their superior knowledge and advice, because they wouldn’t have to carry inventory (which is, in most cases, the biggest drag on the economic performance of any merchandise vendor).

But the deal is that you are a customer, about to make a $3,000 purchase (which has ~ a $1000 of profit) from that vendor. There are few other types of transactions where a $1,000 profit would yield you so little up-front customer support. It is really “take it or leave it” as the bikesport test ride page says.

If you read enough of this forum, you will see that plenty of people have opinions on bikes. And that it should be pretty easy for a person to quickly (within 2 miles) figure out the basic suitability of a bike.

But given the economics of bike shops (not making a ton of money and trying to cut down on both inventory and the service/sales labor that would be required to be able to offer a test ride policy) and the structure of the bike business (mostly small shops with narrowor/small inventories and lots of different vendors and aftermarket parts and hence a valid test ride process would take you to another shop) the bike shops have to resist test rides - it is pure economics…of the supplier

However, the consumer’s economics would really cause you to do much more investigation than is usually available. Not only are you paying big $, buy you are “investing” lots of time into the sport, and you are also expecting some results as part of the bargain. The bike vendor should really give you more for $1000 profit, but then again you should be thinking more for a couple hundred hours invested in a result!

When I look at purchases like this, I am reminded of two classic “consumer mistakes” that I made. My own semi-poor/lazy/ill informed choice of buying a bike from “JSG” who was 100 miles from my house. I paid too much for something I never rode before it was delivered and the service was non-existant, which was important as I developed as arider with my new bike set up. Several years ago, my first child went to a pre-school with an “excellent reputation”. We were enamored by it and totally bought into the idea that the place was exceptional. (of course we naturally wanted to believe that, right?) Then we moved and our next child went to a different pre-school. Suddenly, we were able to judge the first place in a whole new light. Yes, it was fine, but we never had anything to compare it to and we saw it in a whole new light. It was still a fine place, but we sort of felt like idiots for accepting the rap so unjudgementally.

The sport - from a consumer’s point of view - would be better off if there was more comparison and a more open buying process. The economics make it difficult to do, but the bike industry is shooting itself in the foot to some extent keeping it such a “closed” process. Consumers would be more satisfied with their purchase, and their increased knowledge would get them to buy into the sport more if they had something other than a take it or leave it sales process.

Yeah using duck tape on anything but ducks is crazy. Duct tape on the other hand has proven to be useful in many sports…

Careful there, TBG. As I posted before, the tape, which was developed for the Army, was originally called “duck tape” because it was made to repel water (like a duck) and was made of a fabric called cloth “duck” (I think I got that right). Only later did it become known as “duct” tape. I’m sure someone will correct me on this if I’m wrong, but I don’t think you are even supposed to use “duct” tape on air ducts. There is a different tape for that. So there.

And if you ever raced boats or cars you would hear duct tape called by an improved name… Race Tape.

If so, would you have models in the store that customers can touch, feel or sit on or do you show them a brochure?

Duck, duct…look it up. Also check my posts, for I have used both names for the material in question. The term is interchangeable, jtaylor1024.

Also, useful though it may be…UGLY it IS on the rodent boy’s handlebars. For one so concerned with style, this is a glaring deficiency.

:wink:

In general we either have the new bikes here, in fairly substantial numbers, or an example of the bike here for them to see in person.

However, I argue that is a drawback. I like to think a decision made based on well-used information is going to result in a better long-term ownership experience when the rider is in the saddle, on the back half of a long ride. Ultimately, how enamored they are with their bike will really be determined by how well it works in the long term, not by the honeymoon stage of how glamorous or visually appealling it is on the sales floor under the bright lights.

I do concede that is a part of the buying experience- I am susceptible to that too. But I continue you argue that the real value of a bike is how it fits and works, not how it looks.

Here, check this rather long ramble on the topic out at your leisure. People alternately loved this or hated me for it, but it got a lot of reads:

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/editorials/0000048.shtml

perfect analogy.

I hope the name was changed to protect the ‘innocent’

Duck, duct…look it up. Also check my posts, for I have used both names for the material in question. The term is interchangeable, jtaylor1024.

Also, useful though it may be…UGLY it IS on the rodent boy’s handlebars. For one so concerned with style, this is a glaring deficiency.

:wink:
Oh yeah, well I have a really good come back but lucky for you I have to go to a meeting right now.