Ethical Wetsuits?

The recent thread Racing a tri with a pull buoy had me started wondering where the limits for wetsuit “improvements” will, or should end. I know there is a 5mm thickness limitation rule, but it seems like designers are pushing closer and closer to the line of unfair advantage.

For example, the new QR VPB (Virtual Pull Buoy) suit - at first I thought it was a joke, but appearantly not!

What bugs me even more is the wetsuits with textured and grooved forearm panels designed to grip the water.

Why not allow hand paddles and pull buoys too then ?


Edited for spelling…

Personally, I think innovation is one of the great parts of the sport. There will always be non-wetsuit swims. Let’s not have triathlon go the way of the UCI by stifling creativity. It is that creativity that makes triathlon great. I don’t want to see it get stuffed because it is not “fair.”

I have one of the new Orca wetsuits with air in the cells to give extra boyancy. I do swim squad 3 times per week and I still have people in everyday wetsuits come out of the water ahead of me!
Wetsuits wont make people go from doing 40min swims to 27min swim times in an OD race.
Just like having a Cervelo P3C with Zipp 909’s wont make you go 15 mins faster over 26miles!

Just like I will always be passed by a biker with a crappier bike than me, I will also be passed by swimmers with no or crappier wetsuits than me :slight_smile:

The problem I see is the other way around, when someone are passing someone because they “bought the speed” instead of trained for it. It should not boil down to how affluent you are.

Take two equally fit triathletes, outfit one of them for $1000, the other one for $5000, who will win ?

the one with the right mindset
.

touche
.

I was gonna say the one who remembered to spend money on a good bike fit…

Curious, Where is the thread, “Are dimpled, ceramic hubbed, super deep aero wheels that weigh less than 900g ethical?”

I don’t have a problem with technological improvements as long as they are available to everyone.

Obviously financial factors play an important role, but that is just life in general.

However, it always strikes me as a ironic/hypocritical when people bemoan wetsuits and wetsuit technology and the costs of this equipment, but have no problem with the more affluent members of triathlon buying zipp 999s or z9s or whatever faster bike equipment or bikes themselves to get speed.

“What bugs me even more is the wetsuits with textured and grooved forearm panels designed to grip the water.”

Keep in mind that much of the “innovation” we hear about is really a lot of marketing hype that may not prove to have any real world benefit.

Haim

Take two equally fit triathletes, outfit one of them for $1000, the other one for $5000, who will win ?

I have a friend who’s 45, wins Olympic distance tris outright, and is one of the best age-groupers in that distance in the country and until last year raced a ten-year old Trek OCLV with a 60mm quill headset and drop bars and clip-ons with the orginal Zipp wheels (yes… the ooooold ones) and almost always had the fastest bike split averaging within a mile per hour of the Elite/Pros (over 25mph) and faster than anyone on Cervelos w/ Zipp discs.

He swam with an old QR long john, the value of his bike: maybe $1,000 with the race wheels; the value of his competitors’ bikes: over $5,000, and raced in well-used shoes. So, in this case the athlete with the $1,000 setup won, regularly.

Now he has an Orbea Orca and he’s pretty much the same speed.

I guess the same can be said about bike “improvements” too.

Dimpled, ceramic hubbed, super deep aero wheels that weigh less than 900g is allowed. The problem is where to stop. Wouldn’t a recumbent be the faster IM distance bike ? Why is it not allowed ?

"So, in this case the athlete with the $1,000 setup won, regularly. "

Just imagine how far behind his competitors would be if they didn’t ride $5,000 bikes :wink:

Haim

Under that criteria, aero bars would be unethical. Far better to realize technological advances then to be saddled with outmoded equipment. Not just in triathlon, but for every sport there are improvements that rock the mediocrity of current technology. Embrace the technology. It will get you further, faster.

What bugs me even more is the wetsuits with textured … forearm panels designed to grip the water. …

Except that they don’t work. The texturing creates bubbles. It ends up acting like dimples, except you don’t want the water to slip by the forearms.

From ST tech center

"PULLING SURFACES

Though I’ve had my wetsuits tested at the flume in Colorado Springs, I’ve reliably found that the most precise wetsuit “feature” testing was accomplished at the pool. You put a guy (or gal) in a “featured” suit, he swims 3 x 200m, then you put him in an “unfeatured” suit (exact same suit without the “feature”), he swims the same set, then he’s back in the first suit for another set, and so forth. After four people swim four sets in the same pair of suits, you have a pretty good idea whether a new feature is fast or it’s not.

Back in the early 1990s we put “pulling surfaces” in our wetsuits. These were forearm panels that had irregular textures that would theoretically stick to the water during the pull. I took these suits to Interbike. I got my dealers all jazzed up over them. I took orders. I thought I’d taken a giant leap ahead of my competition. I had only omitted one thing. I never tested these pulling surfaces.

So, before I commenced production on these new super duper wetsuits, I decided to go through the perfunctory formality of testing them. Besides, I wanted to see just how much faster than a standard pulling surface these new designs were. My worst nightmare was that they would be no faster at all.

No need to have been concerned about that. These new secret speed suits did not exhibit speeds identical to the “unfeatured” suits. They were slower.

I was crestfallen. But also curious. So, I put on my goggles, held my breath, and watched underwater as swimmers stroked past me with these new suits on. It was immediately obvious what was happening. With each catch air was trapped by these surfaces, and whatever techniques swimmers used to shed the surface of water did not work when using these suits. Air bubbles came streaming off the arm during the pull phase.

I write this because there is frequently a disconnect between what seems intuitive and what is in fact happening. “One test is worth a thousand expert opinions,” engineers are fond of saying, and it was fortunate that I did not equate intuition and logic with sound engineering (well, I did in the beginning, but fortunately repented before it was too late). Had I not tested these suits, I would’ve been charging my customers extra money for a slower product.

I do not mean to imply that today’s pulling surfaces (examples include “Phase I Catch Panel,” “grooved panel,” “waffle grid pattern,” “aqua-grip,”) are actually slower than standard wetsuits. They may well be faster. Wetsuit designers may have figured out the secret to the “pulling surface.” However, I have not yet seen any study of these surfaces, and I have not found a manufacturer who sells this feature (many companies do) who can provide me with its testing “spreadsheet.”

Accordingly, I would question the utility of such a feature until somebody demonstrates to my satisfaction – with an empirical argument, not a reasoned one, nor one with anecdotes – that these surfaces work. Until then, I must assume that they belong in the same category as carbon seat stays, that is, this feature might work and it might not, but it certainly is sexy."

Agreed, a textured or grooved forearm panel does not grip water, it traps air…which actually slows you down.