Elizabeth Warren and the End of Global Trade

First, I intentionally made the thread title provocative. This isn’t meant to be a thread about, criticizing, or disparaging Elizabeth Warren. Rather, this thread is more about the political momentum in the United States regarding trade and how that will affect the rest of the world.

You can read Warren’s piece here: https://medium.com/...r-terms-ad861879feca

Warren’s policy stance is decidedly pro-domestic manufacturing, probably to a greater extent than any other 2020 candidate (at least that I’ve seen). But superlatives don’t matter for this thread, it’s all about policy direction and momentum. Let’s go through some of Warren’s suggestions:

Trade negotiators will publicly disclose negotiating drafts and provide the public with an opportunity to comment.
Personally I’m a fan of this idea but let’s think of what this means and how things will play out. How would an intentional market asymmetry between South Korea and the U.S. for… automobiles… play out in the public discourse? Would the UAW say “sure, we’ll let Hyundai manufacture cars/parts abroad and ship them into the U.S. with no regulatory or tariff barriers even though our products can’t be sold in South Korea similarly and are often subject to 200 day “waiting periods” in South Korean ports all in the name of supporting a regional ally”? No, and it’s not hard to fashion similar arguments for a host of products across a host of industries.

Recognize and enforce the core labor rights of the International Labour Organization, like collective bargaining and the elimination of child labor.
Good luck getting that in a trade deal… or enforcing it.

Uphold internationally recognized human rights, as reported in the Department of State’s Country Reports on Human Rights, including the rights of indigenous people, migrant workers, and other vulnerable groups.
Good luck again.

Recognize and enforce religious freedom as reported in the State Department’s Country Reports.
Good luck again.

Eliminate all domestic fossil fuel subsidies.
This is code for “I won’t make a trade deal with China”

Again, I’m not criticizing Warren. I’m not a fan of her, personally, but I am a fan of a lot of the proposals that she puts forward in that op-ed. So with that said, let’s think about what that op-ed is really saying. Do we really think China would comply with any of those conditions? No. Not a chance. In fact most of the world wouldn’t comply with those conditions. Europe could comply with perhaps 90% of those conditions with ease but then you get to the bit about “transparency and public comment” and Warren’s statement that she will “favor American workers.”

I don’t think Warren is naive and believes that American market combined with her policy stance will somehow bring about a utopian world. I think she’s fully aware that her policy stances will favor American manufacturing, reduce America’s trade deficit, and further withdraw the U.S. from the global system.

That’s not a bad thing for the U.S. (I’d argue it’s a good thing) but it is terrible for the rest of the world.

In a recent post, I outlined how the global system got to where we are today. In short, after World War II the U.S. was the last man standing, with ~50% of the world’s GDP, intact and large financial markets, and a Navy larger than the rest of the world combined by a substantial multiple. As such, the U.S. created a new global trade order, one which the world had literally never seen before: everyone who joined the U.S. system would have access to the U.S. consumer market (often asymmetrically so countries could grow above their natural rate and rebuild their economies), access to the U.S. financial market to clear trade transactions, and the U.S. would patrol the world’s oceans to protect the freedom of movement and trade. In addition, the U.S. instituted GATT (now the WTO) which was a process by which countries would gradually lower their tariff and non-tariff trade barriers. There was also the implicit American security guarantee. The only “catch” to joining this new system is that all the members had to agree to American security policy with regards to the USSR.

The whole gambit was a phenomenal success with one hitch: the world became addicted to asymmetrical market access to the U.S. Countries like Germany, South Korea, Japan, and China are desperately dependent on exports to the U.S. for their well-being. In the case of the EU there’s a second-order dependency because if Germany loses its exports to the U.S. it won’t have the funds to underwrite the rest of the EU. Such second-order dependencies are legion throughout the world. If the U.S. exits stage left by simply demanding symmetry or perhaps a modicum of favoritism its trade agreements, the whole system collapses.

The fundamental problem here is that nobody exists to replace the U.S’s role in terms of market demand. China and Germany couldn’t replace the U.S. with each other because both are net exporters. The math doesn’t work.

But it gets worse. Without the U.S. running a trade deficit, there are no dollars escaping the U.S. system out into the wider world and without those dollars a lot of global trade that has nothing to do with the U.S. cannot be settled. Let’s say Australia wants to trade wheat for Argentinian wine. What currency do they use for settlement? The USD. There is no viable alternative.

The Chinese Renminbi will never be a viable alternative for a host of reasons:

  1. In order to be used as a settlement currency, they have to drop capital controls and the Chinese know that if they drop their capital controls their financial system will implode overnight
  2. Nobody wants to rely on the Chinese legal system. First, there was an overt government directive passed in the mid-90s which stated that in any legal dispute between a Chinese national and a foreign party, the Chinese court was to rule in favor of the domestic party regardless. Chinese courts have adhered to that directive very consistently. Further, it’s clear that the there’s no transparency or fairness in the Chinese legal system. Those protests in Hong Kong that have been going on for over a month where literally millions of people are out in the streets? They’re fighting an extradition bill which would allow the mainland to basically arrest and extradite whoever they wanted in Hong Kong. For many Hong Kong residents, this is an existential crisis as it would certainly mean the “disappearing” of themselves, a loved one, or a friend. What does it say for the rest of the world when the citizens of Hong Kong don’t trust the mainland’s legal system?

The Euro will never be viable for a host of reasons:

  1. When the Cypriat banks were “bailed in” in 2014, the EU basically told every multinational company and wealthy individual "your money is not safe in European banks.
  2. The number of bad assets on the balance sheets of European banks is extraordinary. Simply put, the EU is going to be forced to slowly wall off its financial sector and digest all of its bad debts over the next decade or so (if not longer). Their only other alternative would be a one-off currency devaluation of ~50-60% which doesn’t seam politically feasible.

Circling back to U.S. domestic policy and political candidates, you have to consider how things will play out in the Democratic primary: will any candidate attack Warren’s policy as “protectionist”? I think not. Will any candidate want to appear “weak” on trade or advocate for globalism? I just don’t see how that dialogue plays out well. The U.S. political environment at the moment is very much about who can shout the loudest. Warren has set the bar for trade policy for the Democrats so now candidates will have to gravitate toward her policy stance.

And that leaves Trump.

If China wants a trade deal, their best hope is, ironically, Trump. Personally I don’t see a trade deal with China happening under Trump. You might see trade deals struck with other countries in accordance with what appears to be the U.S.'s new security policy of “ring fencing” China much in the way we did the same thing to the USSR… but then again maybe we won’t.

In any event, I believe we are witnessing the end of this era of global trade. The U.S. will be fine (might even be better off!). The rest of the world? Not so much.

I was wondering whether someone would post this. Boy, if you think Trump’s trade policy is bad for the economy, Sen Warren just said, “Hold my beer …”

I was wondering whether someone would post this. Boy, if you think Trump’s trade policy is bad for the economy, Sen Warren just said, “Hold my beer …”

I disagree with that. In the case of the U.S. where all of the factors of production exist in abundance there is no economic advantage to trade, especially if market access is asymmetrical.

what does "In the case of the U.S. where all of the factors of production exist in abundance there is no economic advantage to trade, especially if market access is asymmetrical. even mean ?

please respond in terms of regular undergraduate level. THANKS,

Its very dani rodrik
.

what does "In the case of the U.S. where all of the factors of production exist in abundance there is no economic advantage to trade, especially if market access is asymmetrical. even mean ?

please respond in terms of regular undergraduate level. THANKS,

I think* it means we have the infrastructure and know-how to produce what we need, especially since most of our trade with other nations is one-sided. why trade when we don’t have to.

what does "In the case of the U.S. where all of the factors of production exist in abundance there is no economic advantage to trade, especially if market access is asymmetrical. even mean? please respond in terms of regular undergraduate level. THANKS,

First let’s start with asymmetrical market access. This implies that the goods from two countries engaged in trade will face the same tariffs, inspections, quotas, etc. At a second-order level, it’s also implied that there are no domestic subsidies for producers (e.g. cheap/infinite loans, subsidized electricity, etc.).

So let’s talk about the factors of production: at a high level, these are known as Land, Labor, and Capital (Entrepreneurship is considered a factor in some schools of thought). Let’s break those down:

Land: this is a category which largely refers to natural resources.
Labor: we’re talking not just a work force but also their education and, arguably, their work ethic.
Capital: in the modern economy, this is arguably the most important factor. In classical economics “Capital” was thought of merely as machinery used in production. As time has gone on the definition has evolved to include technology, infrastructure, and access to a financial and legal system. A financial system is a very important component of capital because it disintermediates production and consumption through both distance and time (sorry, can’t simplify that without spelling it out in an essay) and a legal system is a prerequisite to a financial system. In the case of Capital, there’s very much a “chicken and egg” dynamic between machinery/technology/infrastructure and a financial system (which, again, rests on a legal system).
Entrepreneurship: the ability and will of individual actors (people, companies, etc.) within an economy to organize the factors of production.

In the case of the United States, all of those factors exist in abundance. There are a handful of commodities that are rare/expensive in the U.S. but not in any capacity that would hamper a domestic-focused trade and industrial policy. The last commodity that kept the U.S. globally engaged was oil but that is no longer a factor (hasn’t been for a few years now).

I was wondering whether someone would post this. Boy, if you think Trump’s trade policy is bad for the economy, Sen Warren just said, “Hold my beer …”

I disagree with that. In the case of the U.S. where all of the factors of production exist in abundance there is no economic advantage to trade, especially if market access is asymmetrical.
Don’t forget though, that’s just one part of her proposed policy. Also, among other things, she wants to use anti-trust laws to break up big tech in the U.S. This would probably result in handing a lot of that market to China or India on a platter.

I realize there’s some distance between what she’s proposing and what she could push through Congress. But she seems to tie these policies to some long held personal beliefs and I don’t think she’ll back away from them even if they’re shown to be detrimental. Somewhat dangerous candidate IMO.

The break up of Big-Tech is a very interesting conversation on its own. Scott Galloway has been pounding the table to break up Big Tech for about three years now and I agree with all of the reasons he posits.

If you look at the economic value that Big Tech has created, the vast majority came from when they were young, scrappy, and capital hungry and they’ve largely been coasting ever since (arguably “maintaining” and slowly “growing” their products). Most of the economic value creation (which is not necessarily interchangeable with earnings) for most companies occurs in their early and middle years. Most of the time, growth curves exhibit an “S” shape and there’s a large body of research which indicates that as companies grow larger internal bureaucracies stifle innovation and value creation. Further, there’s been a lot of research done within the Federal Reserve and various prominent U.S. economic schools that indicates that industry consolidation lowers worker pay (which suggests the tech industry could both pay more and employ more people if Big Tech were broken up).

On the flip side, as you say, breaking them up would render them vulnerable to state-subsidized firms from China and elsewhere. There’s also the issue of scale enabling certain expensive R&D expenditures.

This is an interesting policy impasse. On the scale vs R&D side, that could well end up being an eternal debate. When it comes to dealing with breaking up Big Tech and dealing with foreign competitors to Big Tech, the world might answer that question for us. The EU’s repeated fining of Facebook, Google, and Amazon and France’s recent “technology company revenue tax” very clearly hint at a future policy in Europe where foreign competitors are taxed and/or regulated out of the market in favor of domestic companies. When it comes to China, if you don’t know how U.S. technology companies are treated in China (and how they’ve fared when they’ve tried to enter that market) then you have a lot of prerequisite reading before you can return to the conversation.

So in a future world where U.S. companies cannot access either the Chinese or European markets, why should we allow those firms to access our markets? Addressing the rest of the world… technology colonialism if you will… is another question entirely. But this is a good exploration of why you generally cannot seperate domestic and foreign policy.

The EU will be taking on big tech. They want, as a whole, to self regulate and that demonstrably does not work, be it the proloferation of fake news, the proliferation of fake anti vax media and the politics

If fake medical advice about vaccines or medications was done in the NYT it would be a regulatory issue, but the tech giants argue theyre just a host so not their problem. It is, and it will change

Its very dani rodrik

I think history will look favorably upon his work. IMO, a hundred years from now we’ll look back and see a U.S. security policy that was way more successful than its architects realized and eventually it gained a momentum and ideology of its own. A combination of utopians, greedy businesses, and clever governments hijacked that platform and ran it on overdrive. As I get older, I tend to increasingly shy away from utopians.

The EU will be taking on big tech. They want, as a whole, to self regulate and that demonstrably does not work, be it the proloferation of fake news, the proliferation of fake anti vax media and the politics

If fake medical advice about vaccines or medications was done in the NYT it would be a regulatory issue, but the tech giants argue theyre just a host so not their problem. It is, and it will change

I think it goes beyond that. EU politicians have bemoaned that the EU is a “US technology colony”. There’s a deep-seated insecurity about the fact that Europe hasn’t produced a Facebook, or Google, or Microsoft, or Amazon. Further there’s some recognition that EU businesses culture isn’t compatible with the culture that formed those companies. Plus there’s jobs to be had. So I suspect that the whole Big Tech thing in Europe will devolve into traditional protectionism. Again, France’s “digital services” tax is a pretty good example of that: precisely targeted so that it only affects U.S. companies and not domestic companies (side note: it’s retroactive to January, I cannot imagine the insanity of a political/legal regime which allows a retroactive tax).

Its very dani rodrik

I think history will look favorably upon his work. IMO, a hundred years from now we’ll look back and see a U.S. security policy that was way more successful than its architects realized and eventually it gained a momentum and ideology of its own. A combination of utopians, greedy businesses, and clever governments hijacked that platform and ran it on overdrive. As I get older, I tend to increasingly shy away from utopians.

I also prefer trainer road over zwift … oh wait I thought you said Wattopians :wink:

I was wondering whether someone would post this. Boy, if you think Trump’s trade policy is bad for the economy, Sen Warren just said, “Hold my beer …”

I disagree with that. In the case of the U.S. where all of the factors of production exist in abundance there is no economic advantage to trade, especially if market access is asymmetrical.

Well, I think it is great that she wants to take us back to a time where we were self-sufficient, living off the land, and hunting buffalo, like her ancestors.

Not a fan of Warren, but to be honest this really is the only way the US, EU, and other countries with a high standard of living, and freedoms have a chance to compete. In the end if these countries are trying to compete with a country that has minimal environmental standards, pay standards, and workplace standards they will always lose unless they can level the playing field.

Could it work. To a certain extent, yes and it has. Example, basic summary. In order the sell a product in Europe, it must have a CE mark. This applies to cheap plastic toys and pacemakers as examples. In order to get the CE mark, you have to prove many things mostly based on quality and consistency of manufacturing. The details and requirements are vastly different based on the product. Much more involved for medical equipment/drugs than a stuffed animal. The manufacturer pays for this certification, and it involves on-site verification also payed for by the manufacturer.

So, could these be expanded (by the EU) to include social requirements? Yes. Could the US implement a similar system? Yes. Would China obey them. It depends on how stringent they are. To0 much, China won’t follow them and they are locked out. Too little and they are meaningless. Just right and the playing field gets somewhat leveled.

I think he is exceptionally insightful. I also think Mariana mazzacuto is very interesting.

Rodriks trilemma should be mandatory reading for every politician before they talk bollocks about trade

I was wondering whether someone would post this. Boy, if you think Trump’s trade policy is bad for the economy, Sen Warren just said, “Hold my beer …”

I disagree with that. In the case of the U.S. where all of the factors of production exist in abundance there is no economic advantage to trade, especially if market access is asymmetrical.

Well, I think it is great that she wants to take us back to a time where we were self-sufficient, living off the land, and hunting buffalo, like her ancestors.

If that’s bait to divert the conversation toward her Native American heritage, I’m not taking it.

…damnit, I took it.

In all seriousness though, the benefits of specialization and trade accrue proportionally to the deficit differential in resources. The U.S. doesn’t have said deficit (Land, Labor, and Capital in abundance) so it doesn’t really benefit in the long run. It can do just fine on its own and when you roll it up in a North American burrito it really doesn’t need the rest of the world.

I was wondering whether someone would post this. Boy, if you think Trump’s trade policy is bad for the economy, Sen Warren just said, “Hold my beer …”

I disagree with that. In the case of the U.S. where all of the factors of production exist in abundance there is no economic advantage to trade, especially if market access is asymmetrical.

Well, I think it is great that she wants to take us back to a time where we were self-sufficient, living off the land, and hunting buffalo, like her ancestors.

If that’s bait to divert the conversation toward her Native American heritage, I’m not taking it.

…damnit, I took it.

In all seriousness though, the benefits of specialization and trade accrue proportionally to the deficit differential in resources. The U.S. doesn’t have said deficit (Land, Labor, and Capital in abundance) so it doesn’t really benefit in the long run. It can do just fine on its own and when you roll it up in a North American burrito it really doesn’t need the rest of the world.

I couldn’t resist. But, in all seriousness, I really do not think the US can do just fine by taking back manufacturing. It’s not going to happen, unless you want to pay $30 for a toothbrush and $10k for a tv.

Toothbrush and TV’s were bad examples on your part. A toothbrush is primarily injection molded plastic and the cheapest source of plastics in the world is the U.S. (thank you domestic oil industry). The U.S. now imports more TVs from Mexico than it does from China.

As an FYI, in the last decade the only impetus to avoid reshoring production to the U.S. has been tax evasion. By producing components outside of the U.S. and then assembling the final component within the U.S, companies are able to shift where they recognize value/revenue. When it comes to things like raw input costs (energy and petroleum feedstocks especially) the U.S. is the cheapest destination in the world and has been for ~ a decade. The combination of input, energy, transit, and labor costs generally come out in favor of production in the U.S. (the first three more than offset the last one). Again, there’s a tax incentive to recognize value outside of the U.S… and there’s also just not a significant domestic manufacturing initiative at the moment.

http://i68.tinypic.com/260c12d.png

So, could these be expanded (by the EU) to include social requirements? Yes. Could the US implement a similar system? Yes. Would China obey them. It depends on how stringent they are. To0 much, China won’t follow them and they are locked out. Too little and they are meaningless. Just right and the playing field gets somewhat leveled.

You’re a long, long, long way from level. European companies would have to have access to the Chinese market on the same terms that the Chinese access the Chinese and European markets. You have to account for things energy subsidies, access to capital*, externalities… oh, and even bullshit like real estate taxes:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-30/tesla-to-pay-china-323-million-in-annual-tax-for-shanghai-site

How many domestic auto manufacturers in China do you think have to pay $323,000,000/year in real estate taxes on a factory (this doesn’t cover corporate income tax either btw)? Hmmm?

*here’s how loan underwriting in China works:
Question 1: are you a political dissident (Y/N)?
Question 2: are your businesses interests aligned with the political interests of the CPC (Y/N)?
The end. No underwriting. No collateral. Basically no limits on loan amounts. Fall behind on a loan? Take out another loan… As long as you build a business and employ people in alignment with the CPC’s goals, you’ll never run out of access to credit/capital.

China is hysterical. SOE are traded through hong kong. So they get all the backing of the government in the mainland but trade as if they were pure commercial orgs just over the pearl River delta