Looking at the recent pics from the Giro, and some other races, I noticed that although SRM has a DA and Cannondale model out now (re: training ride with Jimenia Florit yesterday and was checking out hers, very nicely machined), I could not find photos of many elite cyclists using it for racing/pacing during time trials.
My question is, aside from training, do these (re: Shimano or Cannondale sponsored) cyclists have a refined and honed ability to pace a 40 or 50k time trial, perfectly, without the aid of a powermeter?
Same with masters, I asked some of our Natl champ TTrs on the club (we have several) and there was always the same answer “I dont need it”.
Is a powermeter for TT pacing something that a beginner cyclist needs to learn pacing, then once learned, ditch it and use RPE, and focus on breathing and effort?
I dont know, just looking for feedback from those with experience. My own races with power have been lees than productive, I usually have done best with ZERO feedback, just going by feel and listening to my breathing, keeping a good cadence, etc., but I want to get every last watt out of me and leave it on the course … so …
-g
Looking at the recent pics from the Giro, and some other races, I noticed that although SRM has a DA and Cannondale model out now (re: training ride with Jimenia Florit yesterday and was checking out hers, very nicely machined), I could not find photos of many elite cyclists using it for racing/pacing suring time trials.
My question is, aside from training, do these (re: Shimano or Cannondale sponsored) cyclists have a refined and honed ability to pace a 40 or 50k time trial, perfectly, without the aid of a powermeter?
-g
The best pacing is a DS in a follow car giving you splits and yelling “venga, venga” through the loudspeaker at you.
Gary, having spend some extended time on my TT bike in the last month…I feel pretty confident that I could pace a damn good TT without my PowerTap…especially if I knew the course fairly well…Between PE and HR I can now come pretty close to guessing what the watts read when I glance down at the Powertap…
It takes LOTS of time on the bike, which I’ve done a good job of getting this spring…the more I ride, the better I get…
In fact, I am planning on riding without the PT at du nationals…
“supposed to transcend yourself”
…hey Joe, do they sell that transcension kit on www.CompetitiveCyclist.com?
you know, like those Troy workout videos …
could not find it …
… oh, you mean I can’t buy it !!!
DAMN
I have to venture that most elite cyclists don’t pace themselves properly. I vaguely remember an article somewhere (possibly from here or cyclingnews) a few years ago, where power meter data was taken of elite riders and they had the same characteristic early peak of power output, followed with a significant drop below average power, ending with slowly increasing power to “finish strong”.
I believe that “strong” time trialists, first have the power to be competitive, then secondly have a lot of experience at time trials. Everything else is icing on the cake. Plus, how would one know a perfect time trial from one that is 10 seconds “less perfect”? A power meter is a nice tool, but won’t there always be variables that keep it from pacing “perfectly”? There would need to be some formula for adjusting your pace depending on the terrain, the weather, and wind direction.
I haven’t used a powermeter yet, but with better training and a TT frame and front-end combined with my racing experience, I’ve gone from mid-pack collegiate B/Cat 4 TT’er struggling to get close to 31 minutes at Fiesta Island to mid-pack collegiate A’s (losing out mainly to Pro/1/2 riders), competitive in the Cat 3’s (9th at SD Omnium), and knocking on the door of a sub-28 (3 more seconds) at Fiesta Island. A powermeter probably would’ve been helpful, but I still would need to know what adjustments to make based on the conditions.
Plus, how do you look at the feedback and stayed focused on riding at your limit at the same time? Doing one seems to imply you are not doing the other.
Last year I had a following car full of clowns shouting “Allez, Allez !!!”. Did it for me…
"Plus, how do you look at the feedback and stayed focused on riding at your limit at the same time? Doing one seems to imply you are not doing the other. "
For a 30 minute CP30 test, knowing that my power is probably going to be, say for example, 320w, I start it off at 320w and hang on for dear life. If I have a little juice left over in the last five minutes of the test, I give it, and try to go 325w - this is done on a trainer.
(of course I am soooo slow right now it is not even funny - no structured training in three months)
For TT pacing, a powermeter would work well to ensure that you dont have a J shape profile, starting too hard, dipping low, then recovering and coming back. On a flat course you shoot to have an even distribution of power output. For varied courses with hills, after starting out low, give a little more on the hills and recover a little on the downhills.
For the flat state TT, I think pasing using RPE - and checking the PM every now and again - can be very useful. This can prevent J type pacing.
One reason I dont believe more riders use at elite levels use them is because they feel that their RPE is superior to the PM data. Maybe.
Congrats on your results at the Omnium - did you join a club yet … Ranchos or SDBC?
-g
during my racing years…strategy for pacing was
go really hard at the start, accelerate in the middle and flat out at the end…no need to say you finished completely toast, want to puke, metallic taste in your mouth and it was certainly not efficient…
basically, after a while, you get it and pace bettter…but even coaches in cycling teams, unless they were a bit scientific, were clueless and you had to figure out on your own
did your pacing profile look like A:
or B:
.
"One reason I dont believe more riders use at elite levels use them is because they feel that their RPE is superior to the PM data. Maybe. "
RPE should be informed by watts and HR, if available, in addition to lots of time in the saddle…
I’d guess that, even more than me, those elites who use powermeters in the early season and then move to not using them in the heart of their season, have done precisely this…Lance, for example, probably doesn’t need to use a powermeter in the TdF time trials, let alone the mountain climbs or even the flats…because by that point in the season he’s completely dialed into the correlation of his RPE to his actual measured watts and hr…To be sure, there are other reasons he probably doesn’t use a powermeter in the Tour…but surely he would use one if he had cause to question his effort perception in important stages…
How long have you been on your powermeter now, Gary? I’d venture to say that you could do a pretty fair job of pacing a 20k-40k TT. Get a few 1/2 IM power-based legs under your belt and you’d do fine there, too. For IM, its such a long time in an individual TT effort that I’ll keep my powermeter, even if that means (because I, like you, use the PowerTap system) foregoing the disc rear wheel… On longer rides of 100+ miles I find the power information invaluable in keeping me focused on my effort…even when racing or doing race rehearsals there are those brain-fart moments where I’d be riding too hard or too easy…the powermeter keeps me in the game, so to speak…
I have been using it for about a year, and my first go with it racing, I did not look at it, but when I saw the data I had just about perfectly paced the TT, weird.
I have to say that there pros and cons for using a PM during racing.
With my limited experience, I basically just go redline and hope I dont crash (both literally and figuratively). Like someone said above, experience is huge and knowing how hard to push your cardio without blowing up.
Gary do not get to caught up in the electronics, I am not elite but used to be OK at tts,I always told people go till you taste puke in the back of your mouth then back off slightly and hold till the end,I never raced or trained much with a HRM,but last year at States TT i used mine, I held my heart rate at 180 (213 max heart rate) and found it was not high enough,i should have gone by how i felt instead.
I don’t see how using it could be a negative. I used mine for the 20K TT I did last week. Guy 30 sec. behind me passed me at about 5 miles, then I passed him back and he faded the rest of the way. I held a constant 320W and had a little left at the end to boast it with (323 ave). If I had run without power, I probably would have been lower because 320W hurts after a short while and I would have backed off, but I know from my training that I can do it. I also know from my training that I would die quickly and miserably at 350W. Now I have good data to show I can probably attempt 330W for the next race. There is no way I can go by RPE or HR and hit my pace within 10W though. Use it.
I used an SRM some years back in both TT training and road race training. I found that it helped immensely in the beginning of the season, but using it in races did help confirm that I was doing everything right. Sometimes, I would go a little too hard if someone who started a minute behind would pass me about one minute into the TT, but they tended to blow it anyhow by the 30th kilometre.
In general, many feel they don’t need it; I liked having it to remind me not to blow up (as I sometimes did).
Just my experience.
Well, I suppose it comes down to the assumption that elite riders know what they are doing. Which clearly is not true. David Clinger, anyone? “I don’t wear a helmet during training because I’m too cool for school.”? Stronger and faster riders aren’t always smarter. Kind of like how the fastest bike doesn’t necessarily win. I know I still have a lot to learn. For instance, I forgot my heartrate monitor at the Omnium TT and it’s the one metric I’ve been pacing off of this season. I put nearly a minute into my teammate (two-minute man) going into the tailwind to the turnaround, but accelerating back up to speed just a little too hard caused the lactic acid to flood my system and I tired into the headwind on the way back to lose nearly two minutes on my teammate. I’m not sure which metrics would’ve helped me during that race other than RPE since I lost my race on a 5-second effort. A powermeter or HR would not help for a loss in focus.
I’m riding the UCSD colors until at least September, even though I’m graduating this weekend. A couple of my teammates that I’ve been doing TTT’s with this season want a crack at the State TTT at Fiesta this year since we’re all of fairly equal strength and have gotten pretty smooth with our rotations. Plus, with the low numbers of entrants, we expect to walk away with a prestigious sounding result. (5th at State TTT against Pros?) I don’t have an '06 team lined up at the moment since I’m going to be looking for a job soon and don’t have an idea of where I’ll end up just yet.