I don’t profess to know a great amount about bikes. I know the major brands and components, and while I do my own info gathering in parallel, I would appreciate some knowledgeable responses. Cheers.
Shimano:
Why don’t they simplify model lines for road to only DA, Ulteg, and 105? I mean, why do they have Tiagra and Sora? Is there a “third level” from Tiagra and Sora? I can understand a difference in design for mt bike shifters, but otherwise…?
Where does Tiagra and Sora relate in terms of quality compared to 105 and Ulteg?
Dawes / Jamis:
Are they good bikes? I mean, I am seeing new Jamis road bikes for less than like $500 on ebay…
Are they being built outside of North America? Where?
Other:
Felt’s Z-series bikes…are these more suited for more comfort riding?
As far as shimano, I think that they make the lower end groups for people who have no intention of racing, just fitness/fun riding. Tiagra and Sora are not very nice, they are lower than 105 which is actually fairly nice.
Jamis…Well I don’t like Jamis much. I would only ride one if it was given to me like by a sponsor.
I don’t profess to know a great amount about bikes. I know the major brands and components, and while I do my own info gathering in parallel, I would appreciate some knowledgeable responses. Cheers.
Shimano:
Why don’t they simplify model lines for road to only DA, Ulteg, and 105? I mean, why do they have Tiagra and Sora? Is there a “third level” from Tiagra and Sora? I can understand a difference in design for mt bike shifters, but otherwise…?
Where does Tiagra and Sora relate in terms of quality compared to 105 and Ulteg?
Dawes / Jamis:
Are they good bikes? I mean, I am seeing new Jamis road bikes for less than like $500 on ebay…
Are they being built outside of North America? Where?
Other:
Felt’s Z-series bikes…are these more suited for more comfort riding?
JQ - here’s my attempt to educate you and it comes with this disclaimer (that all educators should give) it’s about 50% fact and 50% opinion.
I have no idea why Shimano does what it does but I bet it involves corporate market research with pie charts projected on the wall in board rooms. I can tell you that if you’re serious enough to be hanging around ST then you shouldn’t consider buying anything below 105. Sure DA is expensive and it’s great. Ultegra is super fine and works well for folks winning races and folks enjoying their grouppo for years. 105 is acceptable but don’t go below that.
Dawes/Jamis - everybody makes a “good bike” and by that I mean it won’t simply come to pieces on you at the end of the season. The reason you see any bike on Ebay for $500 is either a) it’s built with stuff below 105 (see point one above) or b) it was new in 1973 and is running a 7 speed cassette with shifters on the down tube. If you’re going to buy a bike (and there are tons of good used bikes out there) then buy one with these items in mind and prioritized in this order: size (get the right size bike for you), geometry (if you’re racing long course or ultra distance AKA half or full IM) then you really should consider the aero position and therefore leaning toward steeper seat tube angles (76+) and shorter top tubes - if you’re just getting in a few miles for fitness each week and might dabble with a couple of sprints and an Oly distance tri each season then get a road bike that’s set up at 73ish degrees in the seat tube), grouppo (AKA components, again see point one above) - if you nail it with those three factors then it will matter little if it’s made of out ti or steel or carbon, or alum, or bamboo or unobtainium - or the wheel set- or the saddle - or etc, etc.
If riding American made is important to you then you can forget everything I’ve written above because I’m guessing that you’d be hard pressed to even find all the pieces needed to build a bike if everything had to be American based.
Felt Z series bikes are compact frames - will they be more “comfortable” than say an Felt F series bike? - here’s my answer: as long as you are fit well to your bike you will be comfortable. An F series can be as comfy as a Z series (or as uncomfortable) depending on the fit.
No matter what you get plan on spending perhaps $300 more for a fit (and perhaps a new stem) so that your new bike will have the potential to become an extension of your body.
Shimano has different pricepoint groups, with the Sora and Tigara at the lower end. The reason is that manufacturers of bikes need to outfit their products with Shimano or Campy, or SRAM equipment. Called OEM, that is where I have 10,000 bikes I want to sell retail as say $800 per unit. The frame costs me $100, the seat, bars/stem,pedals, another $50…So now I need to get a derail, brakes cranks, bb, HS,shifters, ect for around $200-250ish. Dura Ace costs me more than $800, Ultegra way high still. Maybe I can put a 105 rear derailleur for some flash and finish my bike off with Sora and come in at my pricepoint. Shimano says hmmm, we can sell 10,000 units if this product today, or wait for Tom D to snap up 5 Dura Ace kits next week. We will sell to the big fish in a second. My Numbers are way off and principle way understated but that is why they have so many group choices. Now my lbs can sell my roadbike for $800 and get the mark they want. You need to compare apples with apples when you buy a bike and the bike manufactures don’t make it easy.
Lets say I look at a Jamis frame it may have an alum frame and fork and 105 shifters but throw in a couple of Tiagra parts to keep the price down to $700. Now I go to the next shop and the Giant bike that sells for $689 has a carbon fork (oh nice) but has all Sora group. Which bike is the better deal? Who knows? And what is the "better " part of the deal? A carbon fork or the better shifters?.
Trickle down technology has boosted the quality of the lower end groups and 105 to Dura Ace with closed eyes may not be able to notice any difference. Tiagra and Sora have similar shifters to Campy that use a thumb lever. I have demoed a bunch of the $700-900 bikes and they ride amazingly nice. So quality probably not as good but plenty good enough.
3.Dawes and Jamis have like most companies a range of bikes. The low end not as nice, but the high end pretty nice bikes. Trek, Specalized, Giant, Raleigh, Mongoose all make bikes in the $700 range that are all speced out pretty close and are all pretty good values . I would probably jump up to 105 level bike at $1000-1200 level, with a carbon fork but that is just me.
Can you play the China game? Find a product under $50 in the store that isn’t made there. Taiwan used to mean cheap bikes, but now Taiwan means more “high end”. Manufacturing goes to the cheapest labor source, which for right now is China. The only North America frames are now usually the handbuilt "high end " frames from small builders and a few higher end Treks. So now your Trek, Giant, Specalized, Gitane, Cervelo, Schwinn, Colnago, Cinelli may be built in the same plant or just down the street from each other. Not a bad thing, but a global economy thing.
Felt has a line of bikes probably built just down the street from the others. Good luck with your shopping and asking questions like you have done is a good thing.
Ιan – thanks for the reply, and as a note to others…I already have a tri-specific bike with a professional fit. I am just looking for something else – no need to go beyond answering specifics.
Am looking at a Jamis Ventura Race for trainer use and beating up on the road and “playing mechanic” with. More comments and opinions would be welcome.
Other questions:
Do shops allow you to demo wheels as is done with bikes? Or, do I just have to go with general opinion and reviews on what type of race wheel to purchase?
Everyone is always so effusive in praise over their Zipps and HEDs, but is there anything else aside from their “aero-ness” that is noteworthy?
On the flipside and more important to me, what are the detractors from Zipps and HEDs? Specifically, do HEDs wobble or is that a rumor that I’m somehow starting???