Hi All.
I recently decided that it is time to train with power. I started looking for Powertap wheel on the classified board here and on Ebay. I found what I thought was a really good deal on a Powertap wheel on Ebay with a Buy-it-now feature. I thought I had gotten an incredible deal on a wheel, but as it turns out I don’t think the deal was good at all. In fact, I think I got taken.
I am writing to get the opinions of those of you here so that I can decide if I should learn a very expensive lesson or if I should pursue a refund through Paypal and Ebay.
First, here is a link to the Ebay auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140344639784&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_720wt_1165. It became apparent after I received the wheel that I was incredibly naive about the features of various Powertap models, and I should have done more research prior to purchasing the wheel. However, I believe the seller totally misrepresented the type of Powertap he was selling. If you notice in the pictures posted in the ad, you never see the wiring harness that attached the “wireless” receiver to the computer. The seller provided a picture of ancillary products (CDs, extra heart rate strap, and computer) included with the wheel, but failed to mention or show the wired receiver. Further, the seller indicated that he purchased the wheel in July 2009. He never stated that he purchased it used (I should have asked prior to buying).
What really irks me is that I would have overlooked the truly wired nature of the Powertap if the wheel did not have a slightly bent axle. Moreover, the bearings are very rough. I do not know if the rough bearings are a function of the bent axle, or something else altogether. The research that I have since done indicates Saris no longer services the Powertap model (Legacy Pro) that I purchased.
I wrote the seller outlining my concerns and asked for a full refund and that I would pay to ship the wheel back to him. He has not responded yet to my email.
I realize I should have done more research prior to making the purchase, but I believe the seller insinuated that the Powertap was something that it really wasn’t. Do I have a case and should I pursue action with Paypal and Ebay, or try to make the best of a wheel that will definitely require more power to spin than my current training and race wheels?
If you think you have been had launch a complaint with both eBay and PayPal. Both have policies/procedures to deal with this. The sooner the better. Not much else you can do.
The ad says “Returns:No Returns Accepted”
But if you think you were shafted you should follow through with eBay and PayPal
A bit late but you could have bought a new one for $650
Your first clue should have been that the Seller can’t even spell words like “bought” or “strap”. Aside from that, yeah, he did a nice job of selling you what appears to be a very used PowerTap wired system. The yellow hub cap indicates that the hub is one of the older “wired” versions - like really old. The two computers however have been “upgraded” (perhaps replaced via warranty) to the 2.4 platform. The description of the item is so short I would have had a bunch of questions for him including the condition of the wheel, etc. He says “excellent” condition so if I were you I’d be going after him for a refund because the axle is bent (so you say). PowerTaps (the four I have owned) are noisy hubs - the “click, click” of the free hub body when coasting is very noticeable and normal.
The only two good things you can take from this is #1 - the wired systems are bombproof…I was sorry I sold a wired system and got the wireless - the upgrade was not worth it. #2 - you are upgraded to the 2.4 platform which means those HR straps should be coded which will give you better reliability with the signal.
Like I said, I’d go after him because the wheel is not in “excellent” condition as he stated. But good luck…all of this is left up to interpretation.
It does seem the seller was trying to mislead—the most glaring to me is the title of “Powertap Pro 2.4gz”…I see the gz and think wireless (like wireless phone) and when you put that with Pro you start to think Powertap Pro+ which is a currect wireless model—then you read bought in July 2009…That said the yellow hub is a BIG red flag but as someone who just spent the last couple of months looking on eBay (and many other places) for a PT it can be tough to figure out exactly what some people are selling…best of luck!!
It does seem the seller was trying to mislead—the most glaring to me is the title of “Powertap Pro 2.4gz”…I see the gz and think wireless (like wireless phone) and when you put that with Pro you start to think Powertap Pro+ which is a currect wireless model—then you read bought in July 2009…That said the yellow hub is a BIG red flag but as someone who just spent the last couple of months looking on eBay (and many other places) for a PT it can be tough to figure out exactly what some people are selling…best of luck!!
You outlined my thought process exactly. Clearly, it was a very flawed thought process and I should have done more research and asked questions prior to making the purchase. However, I believe the seller used some very shady marketing techniques.
Regarding the bent axle and rough bearings, the bend in the axle is very slight and I could probably live with it, if it won’t affect performance. That is a pretty big assumption though. The bearings seem to be very rough. I have only spun the axle by hand and there is a grinding feel to it. I tested other hubs that I have (Cane Creek and Shimano Ultegra) and both are smooth as butter when spinning the axle by hand.
I guess I will pursue this through Ebay and Paypal. Hopefully I can make a convincing case.
Ebay has great customer service. Start a dispute on Ebay saying the item received was not what was represented. And call Ebay’s customer service. I did this and the called the seller while I was on the phone. Whole thing was settled in less than 20 minutes with Ebay’s help.
don’t give up man! i’ve been on eBay for 10 years and luckily only had 2 issues. but both were resolved in my favor and quite quickly i might add. just remember, if this guy is scamming…it’s very unlikely that you’re the first or only one. but my guess is he bought this on ebay himself and it was messed up then. so now he’s just trying to turn it around.
file your claim through both Paypal and eBay (even though they are the same). DO IT NOW!!!
The seller was completely accurate. The 2.4ghz refers to the CPU. And it is a powertap pro. And more familiarity on your part with what you are purchasing and this would have been obvious.
1st- Powertap Pro is wired, the Pro+ is wireless
2nd- All the models with that type of battery cover are wired.
The seller certainly didn’t go out of their way to tell you every distinction about the model, but they didn’t misrepresent it at all. If you have a complaint, it’s about the axle and the bearings being shot. That model is notorious for wear on the bearings. This is easily serviced, but if you really have buyer’s remorse it’s your best bet for a return (or maybe a credit to get it serviced.)
Did you overpay, you betcha. Misled, not really. You just weren’t knowledgeable about what you were buying.
***“**Misled, not really. You just weren’t knowledgeable about what you were buying. *”
Really? IMHO this must be the definition of misleading.
I meant the OP, as bidder, didn’t know enough about the product line. That’s his responsibility to know what he’s bidding on (or to ask questions about it.)
“Bought July 2009 500miles on system”
Unless the above is what you are referring to as the “this” being the definition of misleading. In that case I don’t know what point you’re making.
My point being that writing “Bought July 2009 500miles on system” may be all well and true, but none the less deliberately misleading in the context of selling a product.
My point being that writing “Bought July 2009 500miles on system” may be all well and true, but none the less deliberately misleading in the context of selling a product.
Oh, ok. Yeah, I’ll agree that “Bought July 2009 500miles on system” means pretty much nothing. The seller could have bought it NOS or secondhand or even thirdhand. And mileage means little compared to the wear on it.
It’s not that I have buyer’s remorse, per se. I do regret buying what I thought was a wireless powertap for significantly more than the going rate for a wired Powertap. Again, my fault I should have done more research.
Nevertheless, the seller represented the wheel as only having 500 miles on it. Although I have no way to prove that it doesn’t have more, it clearly does. Moreover, indicating that the wheel is in excellent condition belies the fact that the bearings are shot and the axle is bent.
Since Saris indicates it no longer services this model, how do I get a new axle and replace the bearings? It is my understanding that one side has loose bearings and the other side the bearings are pressed in. How do I make the hub serviceable if I am not able to get this resolved with the seller?
If he doesn’t reply to your email within 72 hours and allow you to return the item, open a paypal dispute saying he misled you (wireless not wired). Paypal will refund your money and ask you to ship the item back.
In the 0.001% chance that paypal doesn’t do this, call your credit card and dispute the paypal payment saying you were misled. The credit card will refund your money 100% of the time.
Nevertheless, the seller represented the wheel as only having 500 miles on it. Although I have no way to prove that it doesn’t have more, it clearly does. Moreover, indicating that the wheel is in excellent condition belies the fact that the bearings are shot and the axle is bent.
Yeah, mileage would be a hard thing to prove. Unless the total on the odometers is more than 500 you would probably not be able to prove anything.
Since Saris indicates it no longer services this model, how do I get a new axle and replace the bearings? It is my understanding that one side has loose bearings and the other side the bearings are pressed in. How do I make the hub serviceable if I am not able to get this resolved with the seller?!
The good news is that the hub parts are pretty standard. I think you can switch the cones out w/ dura ace (IIRC) to improve performance if you want. Not 100%, but I think this holds true for the axle as well. Do a search for PT hub maintenance and you will get tons of info. The loose bearings can be CLA’d (cleaned, lubed, adjusted) by any mechanic who knows what they are doing.
As an aside, how do you know the axle is bent? It would take a lot to bend that axle, they are heavy duty. It could be grabby bearings, or even just a bent skewer. If it really has a bent axle, I would send it back as damaged. But I don’t know how you would know that for sure w/o pulling the axle from the hub and rolling it on a flat surface.
I took a short video of me spinning the axle to show what I think is a bent axle. The quality isn’t great, but I think that one can see something is wrong with the axle. It is especially apparent around 16 secs and is best seen by looking at the nut.
I measured the bend by comparing the nut in different locations relative to the lockring holding the cassette on. It appears as though the bend causes a 1-2mm deflection in the axle. I also measured the radius of the nut in several places just to make sure that the nut is not out of round. I did not find any differences in the radii measurements.
It does look like it from the video. You still can’t be sure unless you pull the axle. But the video should support your claim for the seller. Send him a link and say you want to return it. Hopefully you didn’t play up the 2.4ghz issue too much, b/c that will seem like sour grapes. But the bent axle should get your money back. Then go to competitivecyclist-dot-com and buy a new pt comp for 660. Or back to eBay w/ more knowledge about the line