E-bay: Are you a sucker or a saver?

Another thread mentioned buying a wheel off e-bay that was out of true pretty significantly. That lead me to this:

Is e-bay a great place to find bargains on used equipment, or, are the cards stacked against the buyer (and for the seller) and the people who buy on e-bay simply THINK they are shrewd, thrifty, self-informed bargain hunters but are really pretty hapless, bumbling types who buy other people’s junk at inflated values and then spend extra $$$ trying to get the stuff to work only to find that there really was a reason someone smarter than them wanted to unload it (for as much as possible) to an eager (but naive) “bargain hunter”?
Your thoughts please…

Aside from the cards stacked, there is also the issue of outright fraudulent sellers.

We had a thread on the old forum – that has since passed to the digital zombie zone – that discussed outright seller fraud on eBay. There were links to websites that had of lot of credible information on how sellers can scam you. There are even ways they scam the seller’s ratings.

I remember that after reading that stuff, I personally resolved to never buy off eBay. Hey, I’d rather pay retail and have the assurance that I am getting what I pay for. But then again, I am not a price-sensitive consumer.

I’d like to see some people re-address that part of the equation.

OK, now that we are rollng, I want to say that we sell things on e-bay pretty frequently. We have found it is an excellent venue for maximizing our selling price on older, outdated, slightly damaged equipment and used equipment. Bike companies generally strictly forbid us to sell new eauipment on e-bay, and we respect that. However, I do sell my used stuff on e-bay. My photos are always good and my descriptions are always honest and complete- including describing scratches, dents, etc. One thing we have learned is that we’ll put something up on e-bay we think we can get $300 for, say, an old frame. We will routinely get between $450 and $600. The buyer rarely gets a bargain. We seem to always do well as the seller. Since I’m primarily a seller I like that. The only thing I ever bought on e-bay was some pin-up art that I paid fairly dearly for but really wanted. Our experience is we love selling but don’t do any buying of bike stuff. It seems like its trendy to say “I got it on e-bay” right now, and some element of that drives the sales on the site.

I would say that Ebay could be suspect, though a friend of mine did get a nice Fondriest for about 65% of the retail price, and the bike was new.

I would just look at the ratings. I will not sell stuff myself, as I use an Ebay user who has a fabulous reputation (a lot of great ratings). He can also set me straight for my pricings (i.e. reserve).

I did get ripped off on some collectabls once, but that was my only bad experience.

Just FYI, I find myself becoming an EBAY addict. Scouring the auctions for deals on wheels. Personally have found some great wheel deals…Picked up a NEW 2002 Zipp 909 set-up for $970. An older Shamal 12-spoke rear(never used) for $56. Tubular tires about 50% off retail. Sold all my old race wheels at bargain prices. No negative experiences yet. EBAY has been good to me. (although i find myself bidding on stuff I don’t need)

My wife and I have had good luck as buyers on Ebay, but it takes a lot of discipline to say no to what aren’t really good deals–as well as to wait for good ones to come along.

Right now, I’m riding a Softride Powerwing 700 that I paid $450 for complete. The bike had only been ridden once or twice, and the guy had put it together for sale with a hodge-podge of components. All in all, I got a phenomenal deal. I’ve had similar luck on selected components, including CrossMax wheels that I got in new condition for about 60% of retail.

All in all, Ebay is like any auction; you’ve got to be disciplined and somewhat intelligent to get good deals.

bomangami makes a good point, and I don’t mean to be be critical or negative about your purchase bomngami so please forgive me in advance- I just sold a set of 2002 Zipp 909s I raced on three times with tires, cogs and skewers used, in our store, to a customer for $700. Bomangami paid $270 more and feels he got a bargain. Two thoughts:

  1. I wish I had listed them on e-bay rather than selling them here in the store used (I would have gotten more I think).
  2. One man’s “bargain” is another man’s windfall.

I’m a self-proclaimed Ebay-holic. I have both bought and sold items on Ebay. In all cases, I believe that you have to be fairly savvy to get what you want as either buyer or seller.

Some general guidelines that I ALWAYS follow:

  Buying:   Know exactly what you want.  If you want new DA cranks in 172.5, don't settle for "slightly used," especially when a picture clearly shows a crankset that has the entire DA logo rubbed off and bright silver teeth on the chainrings.  Don't buy a frameset hoping it fits.  Get fitted for it at a brick-and-mortar shop before trying to aquire it.  Bottom line:  don't HOPE something is what you want/need.  KNOW it.   

  Know EXACTLY what you want to pay for it.  If you want to pay less than $120 for those "brand new" DA 172.5 cranks, then put that in as your max bid.  If you lose that auction just keep trying.  Sooner or later you'll get the deal you want.  I doubt that whatever you want/need is going to make or break your season if you don't get it RIGHT NOW.  If it is, you should be buying at the LBS or an online shop. 

  Don't bother with any auction without pictures.  While most of these are probably honest people just trying to unload excess gear, I don't trust anything I can't at least see.  And don't fall for someone stealing the pic off the company's website to post.  Make them show you a picture of the actual product they are selling.  People selling Cervelos are notorious for putting Gerard's picture on their auction because it looks cool.  Trouble is, the bike the seller is selling doesn't come with the 909's.  If you can't help yourself and entertain looking at auctions without pictures, make them send you one.  If not, well, its your $$.  Another thing about pictures is that you should look for pictures of any damage to the product.  Ask the seller if it has any marks/dings.  Make them show you.    

  As a buyer, don't bid until the last part of the auction.  Many contend that this is sniper bidding.  If I'm the seller, sure this annoys me and I'll rail against the ethics of it.  But if I'm the buyer, why start bidding on day 1 of a 10 day auction.  That will only drive up the bidding sooner.  Lay in wait while the previous bidder remains content with his $110 DA crankset.  5 minutes before the end of the auction bid your max of $120.  If you win, good for you.  If not, see above. 

  Always try to communicate with the seller prior to bidding and throughout the auction process.  The more you communicate, the better you'll know how legitimate the seller is.  If they're evasive or don't want to comm, don't bother.  See below on patience. 

  ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS buy with a credit card that has buyer insurance.  I violated this only once, and let me tell you, hanging out there for $800 on a money order was tense, even though I had great comm with the seller and got the bike exactly as advertised.  I won't do it again.  At least with a credit card you can get the power of the CC company's lawyers behind you if you get had by a scumbag. 

  The number one hint on buying is PATIENCE young Jedi.  I've bid on about 12 *New* Polar s710's now and lost every one.  Sooner or later I'll get one at the price I'm willing to pay.  If not, well, I'll keep using my s610.  Its ok to be a cheapskate.  Just be a smart one. 

  Selling:  Accurately list your item.  Don't just sell a "road bike."   Sell a "2002 Specialized Allez Comp, 54cm (Giant, Cervelo)"  As a buyer I am always annoyed at and I ALWAYS skip auctions that don't tell me what size the bike is.  You'd be amazed how many people do that.  Can I ask the seller?  Sure.  But if they don't have the wits to put it in there in the first place, chances are there is a lot more they aren't telling you.  Why did I put (Giant, Cervelo) in the line?  Simple.  People searching for Giant TCRs and Cervelo Soloists, two other similar bikes with sloping geometry will see my auction too.  Maybe my auction will convince them to buy mine.  Its all about exposure.  The more people that see your auction, the more people will bid.  More bidding=more $$. 

  Always put accurate pictures of the item on the auction.  The slight cost is more than offset by the increased selling price.  As a buyer, I won't even entertain auctions without pictures.  Why should I expect others to do the same?  If your item is especially striking in appearance, as a recent P3 "show bike" was, you'll stimulate a lot more bidding.  Heck, I just bought $5000 worth of Litespeed and was more than a little tempted by the P3.  If the item has damage, say a ding in the top tube, put a photo of it on the auction.  If the damage is major enough to cause people to stray from your auction, you shouldn't be selling it anyway (A recent thread concerning out of true Rev-Xs comes to mind).  Give that sort of stuff to a local junior or tri-newbie.  The money you might make on it at auction isn't worth the hassle and will definitely not ingratiate you with the buyer, no matter how honest you are. 

  Always set a reserve.  As in buying, know what you want/need to get for the item and don't compromise.  This rule is somewhat flexible.  You aren't going to get $1000 for a "1994 Specialized Allez Pro 55cm Ultegra, Steel frame," no matter how many upgraded bits are on it, unless you have a brand new set of 404s mounted on it and are selling them with the bike.  That was a real auction of mine.  I set the reserve at $300 (I paid $1000 new) and hoped for $500.  I got $350.  That was exactly what my LBS was willing to give me on trade-in if I bought my new bike in the store.  No harm, no foul. 

  Charge the buyer shipping costs, unless you're selling one of those $5000+ wonderjobs and got at least what you wanted for it.  You can get estimates from any Mailboxes.etc just by taking the prepacked item in.   

  Give the buyer the most options in paying for the item.  Although I advocate CC only in buying, give your buyer the option to pay by check, money order, etc.  Reality is many buyers are younger kids without the CC option.  As long as you get positive control of the total $$ before shipping, no hassle.  An addition to this is to advertise in your auction that you will not sell to buyers with negative feedback.  This just falls in the category of setting yourself up for success. 

  This is quite a long post, but amounts to the majority of my tenets of auction buying and selling.  I may still get had and, given the amount of transactions I do on auction sites, the odds continue to increase that I will.  But these precautions will prevent probably 99.9% of the scumbags out there from getting their hands on my hard earned $$.  Its a conservative strategy and hedges a lot of bets, but then again thats what these auctions essentially are:  gambling.

I agree it takes discipline if you want to save money. When I use E-bay I set a budget, which includes the shipping cost. Then I play a game can I better that amount. I do pay attention to the quality of the party who is selling. I feel it is better to walk away from questionable deal. I recently scored a pair of Sidi T1 at less 50% of list price. The seller indicated they were slightly used. After receiving them I would say someone might have walked around the bike shop with them on. I pleased with this transaction, but it takes patience to get the quality and price you want.

good place to sell, poor place to buy. I’ve bought stuff off ebay, but generally only things I couldn’t find anywhere else (nos for my elderly bicycles). I don’t think any of them were bargains, but I was prepared to pay the price, so no whining… haven’t been badly burnt yet, singed a few times though. I have seen used fishing tackle sell for well over retail on ebay, so there are definitely suckers enough out there. Bargains can be found on the classifieds of various websites, sometimes.

This is funny… You bought them from me! e-bay user ationtombikesport. I’m glad you’re pleased. We do try our best with our e-bay customers.

Thanks for the great service. I am pleased at what I paid. Do you think you would get as much for them in the store?

When I was looking for parts for my bike I was shocked that the ending prices + shipping were sometimes at or above mailorder prices… I have resigned myself to shecking out the classified ads on places like roadbikereview and google…

Unless you are waiting for something rare and obscure to pop up it is not the best place to go.

I think that this is especially true if the item you are trying to buy is something popular (lance pedals, duraace cranks, polar watches etc.) The deals that I have found are the more unique things… (small track bikes, training wheels, etc.)

blah blah blah

in the end ebay is a lot of fun to look through…

In response to a previous poster mentioning always use a credit card… be weary with doing such a thing, Paypal charges a premium when credit cards are used, and if you factor in not paying off the balance all at once you can end up paying substantially more. Last time I checked paypal had a feature where you could buy insurance on your purchase even if you are paying by check…

I would like to think eventually we would have gotten more here in the store but I wanted to move out some inventory in odd sizes, stuff that was out of the box, damaged boxes, etc. One or two pairs of the shoes we sold had cleats mounted on them so I couldn’t really sell them as new. This is one of the examples of e-bay really working. Both of us benefited I think!

Points well made on using CC’s Taku. For my part I NEVER carry a balance on my CCs, and therefore don’t get hit with the finance charge penalty. I’m a recent convert to PayPal from BillPay so I wasn’t aware of the insurance option with checks. In the end, buyers should remember to figure shipping and any such extra insurance costs when determining their max bids. That often precludes good deals on less expensive items like DA cranks, etc… You’re more likely to find deals on the entire groupo except that Shimano has taken steps to curb the source of many such deals.

I have bought quite a bit of stuff off of ebay and most of my experiences have been very good…I go more by how much I can spend and go from there…looking for aero wheels i said wouldn’t that be nice to get a pair of 2000-2001 zipps for less than $400. I got an excellent pair complete with tubulars in excellent condition and an almost new cassette…that being said on another auction I did buy a bike which though in decent condition but it did show far more wear than the seller let on. I am now a bit cautious on what I buy as a result. Even so I got a set of Zipps, a disk wheel, a set of training wheels in great condition, and a bike for quite a bit less than just the bike would cost new. But considering the cost of the equipment new would have run twice as much I am happy about it. As a general rule I won’t pay more than 50-60% of the cost of the item if its used or even “slightly used”…I have to search longer but when I land it, it is actually a deal. Although I do get a kick out of people who try to sell used D.A cassettes stating “no more than a few hundred miles” for more than they cost new at full retail.