Duathlon focus - critique my training

Triathlon Forum
1

Let me preface with, yes, I have used the search option.

That being said, I’ve pretty much found my sweet spot endurance-wise with duathlon and have decided this year to focus on shorter course duathlon racing while also racing run-only and mass start bike events throughout the year (AmZof short course is a main goal).

Without going into too much detail, I’ve been training bike/run between 10-13 hours/week for a while and am very comfortable training at this volume. Current run fitness of very high 17’s 5k and bike FTP ~285 (5’10.5", 166 lbs).

Sample week: (all run paces based roughly upon McMillin run calc)

Monday: (1:45)
run 0:45 - 3 mile tempo (6:0x/mile)
bike 1:00 - easy zone 2

Tuesday: (2:20)
recovery run 0:20 - very slow
bike 1:00 - easy zone 2
Soccer indoor game 1:00

Wednesday: 2:15
run 1:00 - easy by feel (usually between 7:10-8/mile)
Bike 1:15 - vo2 intervals (7 x 3-5 minutes per interval with equal rest with target watts between 290-330)

Thursday: 2:20
recovery run 0:20 - very slow
**run 1:00 - 800m repeats - (**6 x 800 @ 2:38-2:45 w/ 2:45 rest)
bike 1:00 - easy zone 2

Friday: 2:00
run 1:00 - easy by feel (usually between 7:10-8/mile)
Bike 1:00 - Threshold (2x20 @ 265-290w w/ 5-10 rest between)

Saturday: 1:30
run 1:30 - long run, similar pace to easy runs, also by feel. sometimes push last few miles kenyan style if i feel good

Sunday: 2:20
recovery run 0:20 - very slow
run 1:00 - easy by feel (usually between 7:10-8/mile)
bike 1:00 - easy zone 2

I think this adds up to 13:30 total split between 6:15 riding, 6:15 running, and an hour of soccer playing.

If i’m feeling tired one day, I’ll take away a workout, drop intensity, or take the day off (I’m very good about doing this).

If I have any extra time, I’ll usually lengthen out the easy rides. Since its very much winter where I am right now, I don’t plan any long trainer rides, but I usually find time/motivation to turn one of the 1 hour easy rides into a 2-3 hour ride once a week or so.

Thoughts? Any input would be great.

2

Thoughts?

Is that as specific as your question is?

If so I could type a novel. But if you wanted some useful advice about your program it’d help to ask useful questions.

3

Thoughts?

Is that as specific as your question is?

If so I could type a novel. But if you wanted some useful advice about your program it’d help to ask useful questions.

A free novel would be great actually. As for specific questions:

  1. Are there any glaring problems that absolutely should be changed?

  2. Are ~1 hour zone 2 rides possibly hurting recovery from harder workouts more than helping my overall aerobic development?

  3. Do you/anyone have any resources you recommend I look at for duathlon-specific training advice? I’ve had trouble finding much.

Other than this I honestly don’t know what to ask. I read everything I can get my hands on and everything I currently do training is my best effort at putting all the info/advice together into an effective program (in addition to what has seemingly worked for me in the past). Any other questions I should be asking?

4

I think you need some sort of longer duration bike ride on Saturday. You have lots of Zone 2 for 1 hour rides but think you might benefit from a 2-3 hour ride. If you plan on sticking with the 1-hour time frame, then I’d make sure that those rides aren’t all the same course/effort/rpm/etc. That will get you stale.

Ditch the 20min super easy run on Sunday and add it to your long run that same day.

Where are the run-bike-run bricks?

–

5

Greetings from AmZofikstan.
First - your signature line should probably be “AmZof 2012”, not 2011.
Second - Where, in your plan, is there HILL WORK? Both on the bike, and the run.
800 repeats on 5:30 / mile pace for AmZof? Find a trail at 30%+ instead, and run up and down it, ad nauseum.
Ad nauseum is Latin for, “until you puke”.

6

Hopefully Tetsuoni can show up to add some advice to anything that Desert Dude can tell you.

My only comment would be wow, you must have a lot of laundry to do every week with all those 20 min runs in there, in addition to everything else!

Good luck with AmZof!

7

Good to hear from a/the Canadian Womens commenting on training for the Canadian Womens division.
Clearly, she’s already been drinking this evening, which is also good training for AmZof.

8

I think you should do at least one more hard day on the bike. Are you a runner turner biker/duathlete? The only reason I ask is that I am, and it took me a long time to realize that the intensity on the bike does not equal intensity on the run. You can easily do 3 or 4 quality days a week on the bike whereas if you start doing a ton of high quality run workouts you are going to be using the search engine to find a cure for all of your running injuries.

Last year I was training for long course du nats and I was following a very similar run schedule (without the short recovery runs). So it ended up being 3-4 hard bike workouts/week, 2 easy rides per week, 2 quality runs and 4 easy runs. My total volume was a little less than yours, but with higher bike intensity. So that’s my suggestion, replace at least 1 zone 2 ride with a hard tempo ride. You would have no problem doing 1 VO2 bike and 2 hard tempo bike (maybe 2x20, 3x15 or something like that) a week.

Good luck!

9

Greetings from AmZofikstan.
First - your signature line should probably be “AmZof 2012”, not 2011.
Second - Where, in your plan, is there HILL WORK? Both on the bike, and the run.
800 repeats on 5:30 / mile pace for AmZof? Find a trail at 30%+ instead, and run up and down it, ad nauseum.
Ad nauseum is Latin for, “until you puke”.

  1. Also practice riding your tri bike through mud, in case it rains because the Bike In/Bike Out is about a kilometre of unpaved dirt & gravel, which is even more entertaining when wet, like in 2011.

  2. You can’t win the SC tho’ because Tetsuoni has declared me the honourary winner, in advance, from this year forward.

  3. Tetsuoni and Rhinebeck Brewing Company have agreed to restart brewing Beet Beer just for CeeCee because she makes the long trip down from Canuckistan, complete with medical staff (“the other Kathy”)

  4. Tetsuoni has agreed that if CeeCee’s car gets stuck in the mud again, he will hand off RD duties so that he can personally push CeeCee’s car out of said mud

  5. Actually, Tetsuoni has agreed to reserve a prime parking spot on the top level, for CeeCee, “just because”.

(that should be good enough until Tetsuoni gets back from running errands and sees this hehe)

10

Yes! She’s correct.

11

Good to hear from a/the Canadian Womens commenting on training for the Canadian Womens division.
Clearly, she’s already been drinking this evening, which is also good training for AmZof.

Alas, I am on the wagon and boring, at the moment. Some eejit decided that there was no market for beet beer… Gimme Lav’s cell, so I can override you.

12

Yes! She’s correct.

didja see what I did there…

omg I am so funny :slight_smile:

13

Other than this I honestly don’t know what to ask. I read everything I can get my hands on and everything I currently do training is my best effort at putting all the info/advice together into an effective program (in addition to what has seemingly worked for me in the past). Any other questions I should be asking?

You can check out duathlon.com. May be some stuff there to help you out. It is hosted by Eric Schwartz whom I can also recommend as a duathlon coach (helped me win a World Championship). If you aren’t looking for full coaching, he has some pre-built plans that are not too expensive. If you are east coast, you might also consider Long Course Nationals as they are in Maryland this year. I know you said short stuff but with the hours you are putting in, it Long Course would not be much of a stretch. Also, ditto on making some of those days bricks with a run first. Good luck.

14

Really!?!?! 30%!?!?!?! What did I get myself into signing up for the LC?

15

thanks for all the responses so far.

I almost always do turn one of the 1 hour trainer rides into a 2-3 hour ride each week, i just don’t always know ahead of time which day I’ll have the time to do it. Also, while I’m primarily training for AmZof right now, thats the longest race I plan on doing this year with mostly everything else much faster (hence the 800 repeats, etc…)

Would it make sense to take the “recovery” runs and run those right before/after a bike session??

Also will see how a second threshold bike fits into everything. Unfortunately the soccer on tuesdays takes a lot out of me which is probably one reason why the rest of my week may seem to lack enough intensity, but I really do want to play once a week so it is what it is.

Last, I’ll definitely start trying to incorporate more hill work into my rides/runs. should i save it for “hard workouts” or should i throw hills into my easy rides/runs as well? Luckily for me, I’ll be taking a physical therapy clinical assignment at the beginning of april that will leave me very close to the AmZof course so for the last 6 weeks or so leading up to the race I plan on pretty much being a mountain goat!

thanks for the feedback!

16

Hill work should be hard. Avoid the hills on your easy / recovery days.
As noted above, for duathlon, run/bike bricks are as important as bike/run bricks.
I don’t want to jinx you, but I’ve known many triathletes/duathletes that have missed their A races, even entire seasons, due to injuries suffered playing sports like soccer, volleyball, basketball, etc… I’m all for a well rounded life, and recognize that single-minded obsession can be bad, but I’d feel remiss without at least offering a small warning about the soccer playing.
You seem to be under the impression that AmZof SC is actually short - it is not. Very few athletes can break three hours for the Canadian Womens event. If you’re training primarily for AmZof, I’d do more steep hill work and less track speed. Believe me when I tell you that you won’t be able to tap into that high end speed which is cultivated on the track.
Good luck!

17

O, I do believe you… although I’ve never done the race, I grew up in the area and know the terrain. While AmZof is definitely my winter/spring “A” race in my head, everything else I’m racing is much closer to the ~5k/30k/5k format (and flatter), hence the intervals. Based on ur comments though, as I get closer to the event (say, starting at the beginning of March), I think I’ll start substituting in steep hill repeats (800m-2miles/interval) for the speed work I typically do. Also what do you think about specifically training downhill running? Looking at the course profile, and abiding by the what goes up must come down rule, do people struggle making the most of their downhill speed at AmZof would you say??

Your other points are duly noted as well. I actually do often throw my easy run days right in front of rides just as a way to save time (wasn’t really thinking of training benefit, but i guess I’ll keep doing it!). Hill work on hard days only definitely makes sense as well. Nothing I can do about the soccer… until I’m an endurance sports pro (so, never), I can’t rationalize giving up one completely for the other!

Thanks for the help, I’ve heard only great things about AmZof and am very much looking forward to it

18

The AmZof run course was designed to be safe.
It’s a lot safer falling down running uphill than dowhill :wink:
So, each 5 mile circuit has 4 climbs in the following order - steep, steeper, steepest, not too steep, but still a climb.
However, for the most part, they are interconnected by far less steep, much better groomed carriage trails and some single track.
You can actually, early in the race, tap into some of your track speed, especially on the carriage path descents following the first, second and third climbs.
So, you do not need to specifically work on technical downhill running technique - your limited time will be better spent focusing on ascending.
See you in May!

19

You could benefit by doing a big bike focus, as your FTP seems a little low compared to your run fitness. Do you feel like you could put your run on the back burner for a bit and come back to it without losing too much fitness?

Just a thought…

20

great information, thanks! looking forward to the race/day