Seems like everyone has a New Year’s resolution to improve swimming technique.
How many supplement their swim time in the pool with dry land training as well? Seems like the Vasa Trainer and/or pull cords would be a good way to groove technique and get a good muscle workout. I’ve seen a couple posts on Youtube with Mark Allen as well as a spot with the SC’ swim coach for Vasa Trainers.
So, has anyone used a Vasa and/or pull cords to help with swim techinque? if so, can you provide any links, websites and/or other resources.
Some initial sessions on the VASA late last year with my coach revealed that for me, a big limiter was my lack of flexibility through the shoulders - even with his assistance I couldn’t do the stroke properly on the machine, let alone in the water. I’ve been working with a massage therapist and also some specific stretches to try and improve my range of motion. I’ve been using the VASA to help reinforce my reworking of other aspects of my stroke as well, and that has taken several months to adapt to. Also a lot of core and weight work. So far I’ve seen a big reduction in stroke count (18-19 / 25 yards down to 14-15) but I have done very little hard swimming and have not yet paid much attention yet to changes timed performance.
I’ve been using a Vasa Ergometer for three months now. Note–you said trainer in your question, but they are not the same. The trainer is designed for strength training, the Ergometer for aerobic workouts.
When I started, I could barely do anything, even on the lowest resistance level. I attribute this to poor pool technique combined with too much use of fins. I bought the spacesaver version of the ergometer and use my own bench, which is fairly wide and low to ground. This forces me to keep the arms wide and elbow high else I hit the bench or the floor with the paddles. My hope is that six or eight months of repetition will ingraine that motion into my brain so that I will hold that form in the water. If nothing else, I’m doing some good swim training during the winter when I don’t have a pool available.
Initially, I could tell I was using different muscles. My back muscles would ache and tire out. Since they are fairly large, I improved quickly and am slowly making my way up to a reasonable distance.
Chris, can you explain your lack of flexibility? What motion couldn’t you do? And BTW, 18-19 SPL was pretty decent, and dropping to 14-15 is damn good!
Chris, can you explain your lack of flexibility? What motion couldn’t you do? And BTW, 18-19 SPL was pretty decent, and dropping to 14-15 is damn good!
I’ll bet cash dollars his stroke rate has dropped significantly, as well. I’m trying to remember someone on ST who doesn’t spend enough time during the stroke actually pulling, but the name escapes me at the moment…
You should see the stroke on who you are thinking of now! Holy crap, those elbows are pretty much within a few inches of the surface. And the hands aren’t way outside anymore, more like about half way between that and the center line. Guess who is only about :01 per 50y faster?? And the real shame is the cost… the shoulders are sore (in a bad way).
I’ve figured out that a little faster turnover is good. Helps me, ummmmm, I mean him, to swim a little flatter. But damn, it’s an energy suck.
I started using stretchcordz a little, and my shoulder feels like a nail (call it an 8 penny) was driven through it. My vasa trainer was tough on the arm hinges as well. I get why the OP is looking for dryland work. I, too, don’t want to swim anymore unless I’m going to see serious improvement. Odds? Well, you’d have gotten better odds on the AZ Cardinals going to the NFC Champeenship… back in September. Of 2005.
Chris, can you explain your lack of flexibility? What motion couldn’t you do? And BTW, 18-19 SPL was pretty decent, and dropping to 14-15 is damn good!
Aztec,
A picture would help here but I’ll try to do it in words.
If I’m lying face down on the VASA bench (or face down in the water), I was trying to get my lead arm so that it both extended straight (elbow not bent) and it was parallel in both axes to the long axis of my body (not pointed down or pointed out to the side). I couldn’t even come close on any of these with either arm. Each arm was bent, pointed down (the top of my upper arm was below my ear) and pointed wider than 10 or 2. During the stroke my arm would sweep down deep and then back.
As to why, 35+ years hunched over teletypes, then terminals, then laptops etc. helps lead to poor posture elsewhere, chronically tight neck, chest and shoulders and a head that was pushed forward causing neck muscles to be really tight to help support my head. At some point it just feeds on itself and nothing will loosen up because the whole network of muscles is tight. A car accident and separated right shoulder added some scar tissue as well.
I get it, totally clear. That sucks. I’m impressed you can go 14-15 SPL. It must not shorten your stroke much. How do you streamline off the walls??
I get told that I don’t have good shoulder flexibility. But I can streamline and squish my ears with my upper arms (when my shoulder doesn’t hurt). What I can’t do well is reach behind me and up. More practically, I can’t bend at the elbow and get my forearms pointing down early enough (or as early as I’d like).
I get it, totally clear. That sucks. I’m impressed you can go 14-15 SPL. It must not shorten your stroke much. How do you streamline off the walls??
I get told that I don’t have good shoulder flexibility. But I can streamline and squish my ears with my upper arms (when my shoulder doesn’t hurt). What I can’t do well is reach behind me and up. More practically, I can’t bend at the elbow and get my forearms pointing down early enough (or as early as I’d like).
Streamlining used to be a noisy affair with lots of splashing given how out of alignment everything was. I suppose it’s better now; I am sometimes so focused on technique and body position I’ve forgotten to breathe and then I’m completely winded after 100 yards.
I’ve been cross-country skiing since 1990 or so, and I’ve got deeply ingrained motor programming in my upper body. A really good swimmer who also skis a bit (Tom Price, actually) was watching me swim last year and observed that “you swim like you ski”, meaning that my stroke more closely resembled a ski poling motion than a swim stroke. High elbow and early forearm bend are things I still struggle with a lot, although I’m better about it.
The vasa trainer and pull bands are the best you can use to get your shoulder strength up and improve technique. I’m not sure what info you are looking for, but you are on the right track. The only other suggestion I can add is playing with powerracks, but those are hard to find.
When you start with vasa it is a BITCH. It is like starting to do pullups for the first time–you can barely get through a minor workout. But stick with it and you will gain tremendous shoulder and arm strength and flexibility.
I think the vasa ergometer is the best piece of tri equipment I have bought. I’ve had it for 3 years now, and reflecting on my results and training, I think it has not necessarily made me a better swimmer, but it has made me a much much better triathlete. I do frequent short vasa workouts in my basement usually often within some sort of brick workout where I also run on the treadmill or ride the computrainer. With much less time devoted to swimming, and a ton of saved time and saved stress not dealing with getting to the pool early, driving there, finding a parking spot, getting changed, etc., I have more time for rest and for running and biking. My results have been that with much less actual swimming in water, my swim times are the same to slightly better than when I swam a lot in water. At the same time, I have gotten much better at running and biking and I get more sleep, so I recover better. This has made me a better triathlete. My wife has watched many of my races (when she was not competing herself) and she says that I am in a completely different pack than I was in three years ago, and I have gotten a few age group awards when a few years ago I thought I would never do that. I’m by no means an elite triathlete or anything like that, but I have improved a lot overall, and I attribute a lot of that improvement to the time and stress savings brought on by the vasa.
Greetings. I have been using the Vasa Ergometer exclusively for swim training for the past 3 years. About two weeks before my first event of the season, I will go to the pool to acclimate to the water for breathing, body position, goggle and wetsuit fit. This is my ninth year in the sport of triathlon. Prior to this, I had no extensive experience in swimming; I did not swim in high school or in college. I did take a beginners class in swimming after graduating and eventually joined a Master’s Swim team. My technique was okay, but could always be better; however, my tolerance for the length of a Masters workout was only fair even after years of training. My triathlon swim splits stayed about the same during that time with only a one to two minute difference in performance from race to race, covering sprint to Ironman distance events.
I made the commitment to go with the Vasa Ergometer to see if I could tap any hidden potential in becoming a faster swimmer and Triathlete. My initial plan was to use the Ergometer to supplement my pool training. However, as a husband, father and working professional, the available time that I once had for frequent or prolonged training sessions essentially disappeared over time.
Having the Ergometer at home has given me the opportunity to maintain the frequency that I need as a part of my annual training plan. I no longer miss my swim workouts, since my Ergometer is in the basement family room. I no longer loose time driving to and from the pool or trying to juggle my schedule to meet open swim times. I am saving money on memberships, gas, and wear n’ tear on my vehicle. All without sacrificing a minute that I would spend with my family.
I personally feel that the quality of my swim workouts have significantly improved since using the Ergometer. Having constant feedback from the computer about my pace, stroke rate, average power and the power difference from my left and right arm, allows me to be highly efficient while training sport-specific. I see it providing the same benefit as using a Power meter in cycling and allowing the user to adjust accordingly to meet the specific workout goals.
For the first time in years, I am beginning to see my swim splits getting seconds faster for workouts, as well as minutes faster for races. I may be getting older, but I am also getting faster. I think that the Vasa Ergometer would be a great tool for any Triathlete who is serious about taking their performance to the next level.
I had never even considered these vasa machines before this thread. but you all seem to talk highly of them, so I go look. Holy moly those are expensive. No thanks, I would rather buy another bike.
Stretch Cordz(surgical tubing with handles) are a good training tool, I seem to remember that Ultra Tri Guy wrote some good stuff regarding their use. There are some online articles on how to use them properly and I don’t think they should be dismissed too quickly. Basic, cheap, will take some reading and some thought to understand what you should be doing with them, but a nice payoff relative to price.
I have a vasa trainer for 18 years and it is a big help. I use the trainer as strength work not as aerobic. If you can get to the pool use it in addition on the days you do not swim. I set the ramp to a medium grade and do sets up to 30 pulls. The were times when i was recovery from foot surgeries when i did longer sets that were more aerobic. I talked to a few top pros years ago and they confirmed using the vasa for strength sets. I have the old basic vasa trainer the new models look pretty nice but may not be needed if you are still in the pool. Lat pulls on a universal will also help because thats what it really does