I am of the opinion that drafting most hurts those who are strong swimmers and or strong cyclists. I swam through college and am a solid cyclist. Running is what I need the most work on. I feel that I would be hurt the most by drafting. I might not be caught because of my swimming prowess and strong, cycling, but I am certainly at a disadvantage when it comes to the run! The good runners will be able to coast along for the bike and then take-off on the run. This is BS and it should be stopped. It is a cop-out to claim that the high number of participants does not allow the enforcement of the rules. A great example is the city of new york and the terrible crime that it had 10 years ago. The city began to crack down on every violation regardless of how minor. People said there was no way that the plan would work. Now we see that crime has dropped dramatically. The same thing can happen with triathlon. Penalize and DQ the offenders, and the races will become fair again.
Size limits are not the answer. Here’s why:
Ironman Brazil is a smaller (relative term) race, and there have been many reports of drafting.
2004 IM World Championship extensive penalties for drafting for the pros, resulting in a fairly clean race (with the exception of Tim DeBoom possibly getting shafted). Lack of officiating of the Age Groupers, and there were huge packs rolling down the queen K.
Enforce the rules across the board. If people can’t hack a triathlon of any distance without drafting, then they should get a DNF!
Yes, if you are a strong swimmer/biker, you are penalized for it because the people behind you form a peleton and draft. This is especially true if you are in the first age group wave, as I was at Disney. I biked the course alone, and watched the peletons on the out-and-backs.
But I think everyone would rather be a strong swimmer and not be able to catch the draft, even those who draft. With that many people on the same bike course, packs are going to form, and I don’t see any way around it. Course officials are somewhat powerless to stop this. How do you stop a 20 man draft pack?
It doesn’t hurt me the most, or you…it hurts the sport. But ‘complaining’ about being a strong swimmer, in my opinion, hurts my Kharma, so i’ll just quietly agree with you, and sit back and watch everyone yell at our self-righteousness.
If you look at ITU races the strong swimmers definitely have an advantage. If you’re not in the lead pack out of the water you’re hosed.
I guess it differs from athlete to athlete.
Simon Lessing has an interesting interview in the latest Citysports Magazine…he moved to the US and took up Ironman events to get away from draft legal races. He’s a strong runner and thinks drafting hurts him.
I think drafting should be legal. It is part of the strategy in nearly every other sport including running, swimming, speed skating and most forms of cycling. Dump the TT model for tri and make it legal. Its just another bike race -why should it be treated differently? Besides, the judging of who is drafting is so subjective and inconsistent, JUST GET RID OF IT!
In ITU it is beneficial to be a strong swimmer; however, drafting IS LEGAL. In non draft legal racing being out front and riding at 330 watts only to be caught by a pack of people averaging 290 is not good for our sport.
…packs are going to form, and I don’t see any way around it. Course officials are somewhat powerless to stop this. How do you stop a 20 man draft pack?
While they suck – wave starts work pretty well and many races – we need to spread people out and the have the course officials enforce the rules.
I personally would like to see something similar to cycling – cat 5,4,3,2,1,pro – type set-up to help determine the waves – Cat. 1s first wave, Cat. 2 second wave – reguardless of age – then you would be placed in the proper wave and not have to pass 500 people of the bike if you happen to be 40 and older but a fast triathlete.
I would also like to see Cat. 5,4 only races and cat 1,2,3 only races. This would limit the size of the field and keep drafting and other penalties down.
And it does not need to be Cat1,2,3,etc. it could be any kind of designation that reflects your speed relative to others racing.
Age group awards can still be given – but you earn your wave start status.
I think drafting should be legal. It is part of the strategy in nearly every other sport including running, swimming, speed skating and most forms of cycling. Dump the TT model for tri and make it legal. Its just another bike race -why should it be treated differently? Besides, the judging of who is drafting is so subjective and inconsistent, JUST GET RID OF IT!
Just for the record, drafting is basically a non-issue in swimming in either collegiate, olympic, or really any other racing. The only time to draft is in practice, and then you at least can kick the person’s hand.
Open water and otherwise. I’ve seen people draft in the olympics. They slide over close to the lane line and catch that little draft wave from the swimmer in the next lane. Is this legal or semi-legal drafting?
Sparticus, that is a great idea. Not sure how it would work, but I do know (or at least hope) that the better one is in this sport, the more adament they are about not drafting. As I said a couple weeks ago, when I was riding with Heather Golnick at Disney (before I dropped her…that’s right Heather! hahahha!) we were so aware she would say, from time to time as we ‘staggered’ that ‘it’s ok, we’re legal.’
Earn a category, and race not according to age group, like a bike race. You can still have Age group awards, you’re still racing the same course. I like it.
Too bad the idea will die on the boards of Slowtwitch…man i’m so cynical…
So let’s see…I can draft behind a swimmer in the water. Once on the bike, I can’t draft unless of course a large peloton forms, in which case I am forced by peer pressure to draft. Once running, I can then draft again. Makes sense to me…
I’m unsure that your “race category” system would help stop drafting. I see what you are saying regarding not having to pass as many people. However, the way to reduce drafting would be to have the LARGEST possible differential in biking speeds between people in the same start wave. This way, it is all passing, and not people of similar speeds just “packing up.” Thus, I think the age group waves are actually better in this regard.
I agree and also would like to point out that unless the category time is based soley on bike time and not entire finish time you have more problems.
Two guys guys have different times, ones a cat 1 ones a cat 2. However the cat 2 is a good swimmer decent biker but bad runner. The cat one is a bad swimmer, decent biker and good runner. Cat 1 starts first, cat 2 starts 10 mins later. Both exit the water at the same time. Both end up drafting on the bike.
I think th simple answer is to simple penalize those that are caught drafting. Need to come up with better ways of doing it, but I’m sure it can be done.
Also why woudl anyone do anything about it if their race sells out in 22nanoseconds. They have to assume they’re doing something right.
If you have been cycling long enough then it makes perfect sense. Let’s put it this way. If I jumped in the pool and tried to draft off of Ian Thorpe he would leave me behind so fast it would be irrelevant. If I jumped in a marathon and tried to draft off Paul Tergat he would leave me behind in about 10 minutes since his marathon pace is a pace I could hold about two miles. However, if Lance Armstrong rolled past me and I jumped on his wheel I could hang for quite a while, assuming he kept an even pace. I know this for a fact because I have motorpaced at better than 30 mph for 30-60 minutes. Let’s say Lance is putting out 450 watts as he rolls along. I only need to ride in the 270-320 watt range to stay on his wheel. The draft is the difference between a decent age grouper and a world champion. It’s huge.
“So let’s see…I can draft behind a swimmer in the water. Once on the bike, I can’t draft unless of course a large peloton forms, in which case I am forced by peer pressure to draft. Once running, I can then draft again. Makes sense to me…”
I would never condone drafting, since in every race I do, i’m the one being chased by the peleton. It’s the price you pay for swimming fast, I guess.
But to compare the gains one gets by drafting on the bike for 5 hours to the gains one gets by drafting in the swim for 50 minutes is, quite frankly, a joke and you know it. You probably felt silly even typing it.
If your are that fast and someone can catch you to draft off you, isn’t that person pretty fast also? And why wouldn’t you then slow and let them pass and draft off them? It is that kind of cat and mouse play that makes a long boring event interesting.
My point is not that drafting doesn’t give someone an advantage. It is that drafting is OK in nearly every other sports race including cycling but for some reason is taboo for a tri race.
With that many people on the same bike course, packs are going to form, and I don’t see any way around it. Course officials are somewhat powerless to stop this. How do you stop a 20 man draft pack?
How do you stop them? Easy, if you are determined enough the means is already there. As I stated in the BRazilian thread, last year there were scooters/mopeds approaching the packs with the pillion videoing the riders (and their numbers) from behind as they slowly went past. Now, all that needs to be done is a penalty allocated for the first instance and DQ for the second. As all organisations use radios or cellphones the footage can be reviewed roadside and the numbers relayed to T2. In England you will not be warned that you have been caught drafting, you are simply DQ’ed and will not know when or where you have been caught. You can contest it for £10 and will then be told, and if appropriate re-instated.
So, it can be done. The downside for RDs is that it may mean the less honest may stay away from your races.
“If your are that fast and someone can catch you to draft off you, isn’t that person pretty fast also? And why wouldn’t you then slow and let them pass and draft off them? It is that kind of cat and mouse play that makes a long boring event interesting.”
Now that you’ve been outed as one of those guys who drafts in a Triathlon, I feel the need to defend myself. For starters, usually no one rider catches me in a Triathlon. Only groups, because they are working together. (do you think the breakaways get caught in bike racing because the guy in the break is weak?) And in my last race, I was never caught, but due to the out-and-backs, I got to see everyone ‘chasing’ me.
And the reason I wouldn’t ‘slow and let them pass and draft off them’ is because it’s wrong, and I have some integrity and honor. Would it be nice to draft in a tri? Sure…it would also be nice to take money out of a bank that isn’t mine, bang that guy’s girlfriend, and lie on my income-tax form. But it’s wrong. Well, maybe not that last one.
The reason that it’s ‘taboo’ is because it’s against the rules, and a Triathlon is a measure of athletic skill in all 3 disciplines (don’t get this board started on the merits of ‘draft-legal’ vs. 'non draft-legal). It’s Swim/Bike/Run, not Swim/Numb your 'taint while you draft/Run.
Drafting makes me sick. Listening to someone try and justify it makes me crazy…but I still love you.