Ok, I don't post much at all. But, I've been around the sport for more than 20 years. Yes, and I'm a grumpy 'retrogrouch' - 'get offa my lawn you kids' old man.
Could somebody explain to me why oh why do people spend thousands of dollars on an “aero” bike and then put water bottles on the seat and downtubes?
I volunteered at the IMH Bike check this year and I would guess a good 75% of the pros had water bottles on the frame. Doesn’t this negate all the millions that bike manufactures spent on R&D? Has everyone lost sight of the big picture? X secs in the wind tunnel could probably be negated by a few simple looks over the shoulder or reaching for the water bottle…
Can somebody explain this all to an aging triathlete that still believes it’s the engine not the $10k bike?
Why are you assuming that water bottles on the frame are slow? There is data to say that the impact on aerodynamics is very small, and in some cases, benefits the aerodynamics of the frame. Tons of variables in play, but the assumption that bottles negatively impact aerodynamics is not necessarily true.
Why are you assuming that water bottles on the frame are slow? There is data to say that the impact on aerodynamics is very small, and in some cases, benefits the aerodynamics of the frame. Tons of variables in play, but the assumption that bottles negatively impact aerodynamics is not necessarily true.
Excellent… this was the discussion that I hope to spark. With all the variables at play…what ‘really’ makes a difference? We all know that body position is #1 by a huge margin… after that, is the rest just diminishing returns?
I ride a bike that I paid alot for. Here’s why I race with water bottles on the downtube:
Bottles can easily be swapped on course
Bottles stay in. If I ride with a fancy system that ejects a bottle per year in a race then it negates the benefits in my mind.
From what I’ve seen, It’s not definitively better to put liquids elsewhere from an aero perspective. It’s easy to assume that newer systems are more aero although it may not be the case.
yes people have looked at the big picture.
people have done the math
people have field tested.
the aero tricks work. even if you put a bottle on the frame - though slightly less so, which is why you see certain features on the S5, Litespeed Archon C series, and the new Shiv, and the p4.
there is something like 2 minutes per 40k of time to be saved between with frames if you compare worst case (big round tubes) to best case. (shiv, p4, etc)
so yeah, training is more important, body position is more important, but the frame is not to be ignored either =)
I ride a bike that I paid alot for. Here’s why I race with water bottles on the downtube:
Bottles can easily be swapped on course
Bottles stay in. If I ride with a fancy system that ejects a bottle per year in a race then it negates the benefits in my mind.
From what I’ve seen, It’s not definitively better to put liquids elsewhere from an aero perspective. It’s easy to assume that newer systems are more aero although it may not be the case.
Thanks for including that article… I think that’s exactly where I’m trying to go… “How you put your race number on matters more than having an aero wheel”. I’m suggesting that with all this expensive equipment, have we forgotten how to put our race numbers on?
I still say that the best investment I ever made was an old 'jetstream" drinking system for $25. Not because it was aero, but because I actually drank on the bike (i rarely reached for the bottles). If I’m hydrated, I run faster.
So, I totally agree. And that’s what I am getting at with the big picture… and you nailed it… what good is an aero bottle if it won’t stay in the cage?
I know my original post may have sounded like it was from a different angle… but this is what I wanted … ‘real world’ vs. 'wind tunnel and theory"
Exacly… just like your sig. …Engine > Position > Aerodynamics…
No matter what aero tweaks I can try. I’m still gonna get my butt kicked by a better rider. Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever lost or won a race by a margin that could have been corrected by aero tweaks.
Having been to the show a few times… I’d rather have the water
Thanks… I read that article just before I went to Hawaii and that was pretty much why i noticed and asked the question to the group…
From the article:
“The Cervélo P4 with its integrated P4 bottle is the only case where the water bottle does not add drag and slow you down”. “If you use a round bottle on these bikes it is always fastest on the down tube but still adds typically 40-50 grams of drag.”
So… I guess maybe the question might be… is it faster to carry your own water rather than slow down to get a bottle from an aid station? Hmmm…
Many of the pros use the down tube bottle as a calorie bottle filled with gels or the like. Alternately, a lot of folks just like having their hydration highly accessible. If they don’t drink enough because the behind-the-seat bottle is too hard to reach all the aero savings is for naught.
Also, lots of pros pay surprisingly little attention to aero concerns. Chrissie is the best example of this. She just wants to focus on the engine and basically rides what she’s given.
