I got my road bike out the other day for the first time in a long while. I took some measurements and pictures to tweak the setup a bit. It occured to me that my torso angle on that bike is about the same as, oh, 80% of triathletes while riding in their aerobars. Take a look at most position pics posted here, and then troll through road cycling photos on various boards. Most triathletes’ “aero” positions are higher and less aero than a roadie would ride in the drops or on a solo effort.
I therefor wonder why so many triathletes bother putting aerobars on the bike. Most of these bike positions are really no different than riding a road bike on the hoods or in the drops. I have seen many, many aero positions that are less aero than a commuter bike. Most people should just ride like that and skip the aerobar investment. It’s just as fast and they’ll probably feel safer and more balanced.
The only reason to install aerobars is to get aero. Otherwise, stick with riding a regular setup.
We train our asses off for an extra 20-25 watts, and then most of us piss it away on race day by turning our bodies into parachutes.
Final rant – what is the deal with the obsession over “comfort?” Does anybody think Jeff Gordon complains every Sunday that he’d rather drive his Mercedes instead of his NASCAR rig because the Mercedes is more “comfortable?”
Is it comfortable holding an aero tuck for a few hours at a time? Well to be honest, no it’s sure not. My cruiser bike is way more comfortable. So is my road bike. My sofa is most comfortable of all.
It’s racing my friends – if all that mattered was comfort, we’d play golf.
If your race was “comfortable,” you didn’t try hard enough.
I respectfully disagree. Riding my tri bike in the aero bars with a modest 8-9 cm drop is way more comfy than riding my road bike and way more comfy than anytime I ever rode a cruiser. Not that I ever road a cruiser for 4 hours - but my butt kills me on those cruisers. My tri bike is the most comfortable bike for long course/flat races that I’ve ridden - maybe because thats what I ride most…now put me in traffic and constant hills and I’ll take my road bike/hoods…
And don’t blame the triathletes (o.k. blame them a little) - but I think its the bike shops that do it to them. I’ve been very very under impressed with bike shops/tri shops knowledge/recs even very well-known high end shops (no names - Dan will out me)…Also comfort is key - aerobars really suck if you don’t use them or worse yet put your hands on the armpads and sit bolt upright…and if you can’t run well it doesn’t matter how you biked. Try running with a tight back - it really slows you down.
Ash, this is unlike your usual rational and logical posts. What’s up?
A higher aero position can be a lot more slippery than a lower position on the drops. Think about WIDTH up front.
As for comfort, I’d say you are right. Sort of. It’s one thing to be uncomfy, it’s another to be miserable. Find the optimal tradeoff among aero, performance (i.e., tradeoff between power and position), and comfy variables.
I hated aero bars at first. Now I love them. Resting my upper body feels great on a long ride. Just so long as the position isn’t too low…
Aztec has it - its not necessarily about height - but width.
I’m easily a good 2 mph faster on tri bars than I am on the drops. And its more comfortable. You need to get your position sorted.
One of my riding buddies is so comfy on his tribars that he’s started to doze off on more than one occasion. I defy anyone to try that riding on the drops.
Comfort for longer distance events is obviously part of the equation. Whats the point in being super aero if you’re in agony after the bike ?
Actually, both Axtec and Ash are right… It is about height and width. Actually, it is about cDa, which is a function of height/width (frontal surface area) as well as a bunch of other things.
Ashburn, “comfort” is also a subjective term. If you ride a carbon bike because it is more comfortable, in that it dampens more road vibration, than an aluminum bike, and you therefor exert less muscular energy damping the vibrations with your body, then comfort is not a waste. Comfort in terms of proper fit, the right materials, etc. usually translates into higher speed on the bike and better speed on the run. Don’t confuse that kind of “comfort” with comfort/discomfort related to exertion.
Aerobars, tri-bikes, etcetra are a lot like swimming with hand paddles: A fair amount of skill, fitness, technique, and speed are necessary to get the benefit.
Triathlon as a sport would be in better shape if half the bikes at local races were straight roadie setups.
As a side note, my father is in his late 50’s and does triathlons. He rides with over 10cm of saddle to armrest drop. He also rides with toe-clips and running shoes, and laughs at aero wheels (Avg. 20mph+ over a 1/2IM). He’s taught me quite a bit.
A position would be lower during a 20 km TT than on a IM bike leg. This would apply for most people, especially AG’ers. The low aero position is fine for my middle aged body for a 20 km TT, but I’d be crippled to ride that way for 180 kms, and I have extremely good flexibility for a baby boomer.
As mentioned, you rest shoulder/arm muscles more on aero bars than on the drops. This takes pressure off your neck and shoulders.
John Cobb has said that getting narrow offers more aero advantage than getting low.
Comfort is everything. Never sacrifice aero or power for comfort. Especially if you want a decent run afterwards.
Have you not noticed Lance’s latest TT position. He’s higher in the front than he used to be.
"1) Lance is lower in the front than 90% of triathletes. "
Let’s only consider the pros. He’s definately much higher than Bjorn. How many of Lance’s TT’s are 180 kms? Shorter distance TT’s would allow for a lower position.
"2) He’s higher than 10% of triathletes because he’s riding slack. "
A lot of the TDF TT riders do seem to be lower than Lance’s latest position. Many of the the pro cyclists do look to my eye even lower than most of the pro triathletes despite the fact they are riding slacker. Even Bjorn is riding in more of a TT position seat angle wise. Of course the roadies don’t have to run a marathon afterwards. I’ve never actually measured, but that is my impression.
I’ll certainly agree in general with your statement - most folks aren’t set-up properly.
However…I do think you’ll need to come to grips that aero isn’t everything. There is a percentage of “power riders” who analytcally ride faster when using the aerobars as a point of leverage rather than a means of decreasing frontal area. Stadler and McCormack being the most notable…perhaps Lessing at 3rd.
Comfort is everything. Never sacrifice aero or power for comfort. Especially if you want a decent run afterwards.
I think there is a bit of misunderstanding, comfort like everything else is relative. After all it is a race you are training for and when you race, speed to finish line is the point. Races are are never really comfortable. Lying on the couch is comfortable.
I will racing a 16km TT tomorrow on a Soloist (seat post in normal roac position) with clip ons. Need to figure out if I need to use a shorter stem or not, I will not change my seat position as this is how I ride 100% of the time for the last 6months. I am believe that you are fastets and most comfortable in the position you ride most often.
You couldn’t be more wrong. It’s not how fast you are, it’s how fast you look.
Aerobars look much faster. End of argument. (or as this case is going, a one sided fireing line.)
Rick I agree with you. For the last couple of years I rode with my handlebars fairly high figuring why kill myself on the bike with an “aggressive postion” I need to save myself for the run.
Well after reading alot and thinking about it a ton (read obsessing about it). I realized a low and aero position is not “aggressive” in fact it is quite conservative. You are choosing to do less work for the same speed or more speed for the same work. I am amazed that I can ride with the same relative comfort with much larger drop. At Ironman Arizona I had no difficulty holding my aero postion as long as I wanted, despite a huge drop in my postion (So large I am embarassed to admit it in public). I am even thinking about going lower, but will let my Power Tap tell me if it is wise or not.
I liked the post. For years I resisted dropping my position but now realize it is not a big deal. I am no Bjorn though. Over 112 miles i guess it is best to disrupt as little wind as possible. To paraphrase Kraig Willett very loosely from Gordo’s forum the other day it gives you more fun cards for the run.
I actually get numbness down my shoulders and severe pain in my neck when I ride my ROAD bike for long! I’m actually more comfortable on my TT bike…it’s much less stressful on my trapezius muscles. I guess that tension builds up over an hour on my road bike and manifests itself as numbness and pain. Put it this way, if I didn’t have a TT bike, I’d never ride much more than an hour at a time.
no clip-ons? screw that. My hands would go numb and speed would go way down. I have one bike that has to do it all and this one works quite well for me
do a tt same bike with and with out aero bars then repost.
Just stirring up conversation.