A few questions I’ve been asking myself:
Do you think the WTC is freaking out because the Silverman received so much publicity? The numbers were not great, but it seems like, from this forum, that there is a lot of interest in doing the event. Slowman’s Clearwater thoughts make me wonder if the overcrowded, flat coursed WTC events are getting old to hard core triathletes.
Does the success of Quelle and potential success of Silverman hurt the Mdot brand?
No… WTC doesn’t care at this point…
They’re selling out races in record time that’s all that matters…
My personal belief is… it’s only a matter of time that independent IM distance races increase in the numbers… GFT, Chessyman, Silverman I believe will survive and at some point be as saturated as an M-Dot.
I’ve only race two Iron distance race… GFT '05 and IMLP '06 and quite honestly, on race day, I don’t feel as though I got anything more from IMNA then GFT RD’s.
My next IM distance race will be an independent and I hope the trend continues…
I would agree. As long as WTC can charge as much as they do and fill races in a couple of weeks I don’t think they will care. Silverman et all represent good healthy competition for our dollars and thats great. Plus, my dad lives in Henderson so I would love it if Silverman continues to grow.
My personal belief is… it’s only a matter of time that independent IM distance races increase in the numbers… GFT, Chessyman, Silverman I believe will survive and at some point be as saturated as an M-Dot.
Bill Scott, who organized the Blue Devil for four years would probably differ with you on this.
http://www.set-upinc.com/dukebluedevil/
History has shown that - for whatever reason - it is extremely difficult to get an independant IM to thrive. The Blue Devil, Pineman, UltraMax all have died in the last two years alone. Doesn’t sound like saturation to me…
Bill Scott, who organized the Blue Devil for four years would probably differ with you on this.
I think Blue Devil was just a little too early. Independents are growing. Also, did Blue Devil do multiple races on the same day? Internation, Half and Full? I like the race format that GFT… Even thought there were only 400 or so FULL Racers, on the morning with 1500 short distance racers the atmosphere was great.
The Blue Devil did not incldue other races on the same day (Mr. Scott explains why in this link I provided earlier). The Pineman did have four distances on the same day (including a unique 3/4 IM) and it didn’t help.
From a newbie’s point of view, there’s an awe and mystic about WTC events that Silverman does not posess. I think possibly the hardcore atheletes that want a challenge may try it but to me, even though I didn’t finish, I used it as a race to get my toes wet a little in a 140.3 distance.
But even for the hardcore, I think it’s something to try once and if you finish it, there’s no mystery that surrounds it anymore. There’s no reason to go back as in WTC events will always have that chance to get to Kona.
I just can’t see thousands of people flying across the country spending thousands of $ like people do for WTC events just to do Silverman.
Granted the relay stirred up publicity but I think only in the spectator aspect of the race.
“Does the Silverman Threaten the WTC?”
No, not right now. But smart Race directors and race managment companies should take notice. Silverman has done something that few new events do and that’s create some buzz and offer up some product that is not the same-old-same-old race that everyone else is doing. Yes, the race is over the classic ironman distance, but the relay element, I think could really take off, particularly if the keep pushing the star quality of the relay and the challenges between triathlon specialists and single sport specialists.
Fleck
IMHO, the ‘mystique’ about WTC events goes away after experiencing a few. They do have a predictable formula (yawn) that is reassuring for newcomers to the distance, but beyond that, my observation has been that the indies provide alot more----for less money—in terms of personal attention (and in the case of Silverman, schwag). Seems like the only reason to race only WTC events is if your focus is on getting to Kona; even so, the indies are great ‘practice IMs’.
It would be nice for both options to be available to long course triathletes, and the only way this will happen is if folks step up and continue to race the indies.
That said, I don’t recommend Silverman as your first irondistance experience!
I think that there are plenty of people that will continue to do the Mdot courses that they aren’t worrying about Silverman. The chance to qualify for Kona and the mystique will keep both first timers and experienced athletes selling them out quickly.
I think Silveman will continue to grow, though. Having done LP and having little to know hope of qualifying for Kona until I’m retirement age, I like the idea of independent races with unique courses and formats. I especially like the difficulty of the Silverman course. One of my pet peeves of triathlon in general is the too flat bike courses.
-bs
You are probably right. I can see where the mystique would go away after a few. I’ve also heard they are very crowded and a whole different feel to the race. I think you’re right also that I might have went backwards as I’m also signed up for IMAZ and should have attempted that one as my first instead of Silverman. I will be back next year for Silverman though, I have some unfinished business.
I have done 3 Ironman races and 10+ 1/2 ironman races.
My favorite IM’s were Vineman, GFT and then IMCA.
My favorite 1/2’s are Wildflower, Vineman and then IMcalif.
For me the WTC / IMNA races are just a clusterf*ck of people - way too crowded. I dont’t think that is what the founding fathers of Ironman had in mind.
…there’s an awe and mystic about WTC events that Silverman does not posess…
Really? I think there used to be but quite honestly, that is long gone. I understand you are a newbie but I think after you do one, you’ll realize it’s just another race and then seek out smaller ones.
I’m really baffled as to why so many continually stick to M-dot races. I can see the top AG’ers who are trying to get to Hawaii, but for the vast majority, I can’t think of a single reason why people don’t switch to the smaller races.
Though you think the awe and mystique is long gone, you are still baffled as to why so many sign up and those M-dot races get sold out so soon. So there is obviously something that draws the crowd. I mean, maybe it’s not the same people filling up the spots. As people do one or two and lose interest and go for the smaller races, there are more and more newbies like me joining in the game late filling up the spots.
I always see people complaining on this board that the M-dot races are crowded, filled with newbies like me clogging up the lanes and this and that, that they need to make the cutoff time lower. Yada yada yada. Maybe there’s more awe and mystique to the average a little overweight joe that could never really ever dream that they could accomplish such a race. For us, it’s like climbing mount everest…putting in hours and hours of training may still not accomplish the goal for whatever reasons. To you guys, it’s just another day.
It is just as much about hype as it is about the race. When athletes write play by play race reports about their experience signing up online, it tells you something. Any race director will tell you that once you are able to fill your race up in advance and turn athletes away, you are set for life.
It always amazes me at the number of athletes that would never even consider entering a non-official Ironman. Every year we have handful of athletes that enter the Great Floridian thinking it is Ironman Florida. A month later they call and beg for a refund because they realize they entered the wrong race. Most never race the GFT, they just write off their entry fee.
The Great Floridian hit almost 1200 participants the year before Ironman placed an event in our backyard…within two weeks of our long standing race date! The following year we dropped down to less than 400 participants and have never recovered.
Fred
Fred,
Maybe you’ve tried this, maybe I’m being niave, but it seams to me that you could recover very easily if you spent some time and money getting a larger prize purse and trying to attract some good pros who maybe have a bad day at Kona.
Get a sponsor to pony up a few ITU guy and gals to debut at your race. With the success of MJ, we’re sure to see some of those racers move up in distance.
So Fred, let’s say there are ~500 people who legitimately believe they can go to Kona. That leave ~1500 entrants who could enter GFT or IMFLA. Of these 1500, take 1000 virgins who for some twisted reason think they need an Mdot to legitimize their Ironman accomplishment/life checkmark.
That still leaves 500 people who could go to either GFT or IMFLA. I wonder what these guys are thinking that tips them in favour of the Mdot race.
Usually, GFT is the same weekend or within a week of Kona.
I don’t think prize money for the pros would do it. Perhaps if we gave away $1000 to each age group winner, but USAT rules do not allow that.
There are some things that just happen as the result of numbers. A finish line for 2000 participants is going to be more exciting than one for less than 300. The first marathon I ran back in the 80’s only had 200 runners. For most of the race I could not see anyone in front of me or behind me, I wasn’t even sure if I was on the right course. It was a great race, but you cannot compare it to the experience of running a larger marathon like New York or Boston.
When you have a $1,000,000 budget to play with you can do much more to get the community excited and pay for cool things like live internet coverage and giant video screens. We do the best we can with the budget we have and I try not to think about the fact that the community fund for Ironman Florida is greater than our entire race budget.
Fred
Just a thought. But can you guys that are not M-dot related form some sort of alliance across the country, create your own championship, and then co-exist with them. Sort of like the UFC and Pride Fighting. They are both successful in their own right but still compete for pretty much the same fan base.