Agreed…it has a lot to do with how we compare ourselves to our reference group (e.g., friends, local triathletes). We want to impress/beat members of our reference group. It’s a powerful incentive. Easy (for me) to see how it can cause some age groupers to use PEDs.
Rapp and Jack…I’m not saying that it might be pretty prevalent in age group ranks…but my guess is that it is more from the front of the mid pack, where someone is hoping to make a big leap. I’d be surprised if FOP age groupers are actually doping for a few reasons: You can track results of most FOP guys for many years…those who are there have been there for many years Most of these dudes have nothing to prove except wanting to beat their own times If some of these guys actually dope, they’d put down prozone times (jumping from 9:20 to 8:45 for example…)
I’d be suprised if any of my peers are beating me through dope. They are beating me by training harder and racing smarter…and having a good dosage of “better starting genetics” can’t hurt either!
Is that really why some of you guys race? You can’t be serious? Man, I was out on the IMLP course and one of my competitors was having a tough time and I ran beside him and nursed him along with a few salt tablets that he did not have! All you guys wanting to impress/beat members of your reference group need a dosage of self confidence/esteem…race results will change nothing.
Again it comes back to my point…these age grouper doping must be lacking some serious self esteem if they place so much of their identity in their results that they need to dope to get better results to stroke their fragile egos. Thankfully, my son is not growing up in a house where he feels that he is only as worthy as his last race/game/school report card!
Superclyde, I appreciate your opinion, but I think you misunderstood. You have never seen me say anything about “everybody was doing it”, “it’s not illegal until you get caught” or anything like that. When we got involved in pro cycling, we poked around as well as we could (which with this topic is not easy) to make sure we supported a team where there was no team-organized doping. Heck, when we started I really didn’t know. Was 1% clean or 99%, of course I had heard stories, just like everybody, but I didn’t actually KNOW anything. Obviously, there is no easily downloadable list with this information, there are just opinions from people about “this team is trying” and “stay away from that team”. Nothing anybody can build a case on (in fact, there is little point in reporting these rumors to the proper authorities, they often come from the authorities themselves), but they were all we had and CSC was among the teams favorably reviewed by the rumor mill of those supposedly in the know.
So those were our first years in pro cycling, there were a lot of rumors about some teams having organized doping within, others that don’t, no proof of anything, but at least we were comfortable in the idea that we were not supporting one of the teams mentioned as dirty (innocent until proven guilty is an important principle, but that doesn’t mean I have to supply such a team with bikes). Then it became clear that that was not enough. Riis’ doping is obviously not something that happened while we were a bike sponsor, but if the information that is out there today is correct, you could name Hamilton, Jaksche and Basso. So team sponsors like CSC and Cervelo took the decision that having a team management that does not support or aid in doping of the riders is not enough. That’s where the new anti-doping program came in, which is unique in its scope of testing (including blood volume for example), frequency (800 tests) and accountability (tests scheduled and performed by independent WADA-approved company, analysis in WADA labs and the results sent directly to the UCI and WADA without the team able to interfere).
No other bike company is paying for something like that. Now I don’t expect or even want a pat on the shoulder for that, but don’t say we’re not part of the solution, because if we aren’t, then nobody is right now. Energy would be better spent in asking the other teams and their bike sponsors why they are not committing any funds to independent anti-doping programs. At any rate, this is just the start. What we are doing next is try to influence other teams. You see, we regularly get other teams asking if we would be interested in sponsoring them. We have always said no, as it’s just too much work, but this past month, I have started to respond with “Sure, if you institute Team CSC’s anti-doping program”. So far one team has said they would be interested in doing that, so we’ll see how that progresses, and I’ll keep you informed. If we can get a couple of teams to adopt the Team CSC anti-doping program, maybe it can snowball from there.
Anyway, I am certainly not a fan of the status quo, I am actually quite happy if major sponsors pull out, although a little bit scared as well. With every sponsor that pulls out, it should become a little bit clearer to teams and riders that this is costing them, and they have to clean up. Unfortunately, it may also convince those in charge of the anti-doping crusade that it is costing THEM too much, and they may relent. But I hope they don’t, if they stop now they will have ruined the sport without getting any improvement in return, it’s best to keep pushing, even if it hurts the sport short-term. Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing team budgets go from $15 million to $1.5 million. The Tour could also do with a little shrinkage. On a lighter note, there could be a silver lining, maybe the current mess will convince VS to stop broadcasting, so we don’t have to listen to Bob Roll anymore.
“How exactly is Gerard sitting in Toronto supposed to know what Riis and Basso are doing in a training camp in Majorca? Seriously, they are just a sponsor.”
The thing is, Cervelo continues to sponsor Riis despite his legacy of doping. Personally, if I were Gerard, I would be a complete hard-ass and do what I could to force Riis to employ testing protocols that at least equal those of Slipstream, even if it meant dropping the sponsorship.
FWIW, I consider the Slipstream sponsorship an excellent reason to buy a Felt bicycle, which is why my next ride will be a Felt.
From an early age, we are socialized to compete with our reference group (e.g., Little League, cheerleading, report cards). In mid-life…it’s work, triathlon, etc. Some feel such a strong need for peer recognition that they take PEDs. You sound more centered than most people I know.
"What we are doing next is try to influence other teams. You see, we regularly get other teams asking if we would be interested in sponsoring them. We have always said no, as it’s just too much work, but this past month, I have started to respond with “Sure, if you institute Team CSC’s anti-doping program”. So far one team has said they would be interested in doing that, so we’ll see how that progresses, and I’ll keep you informed. If we can get a couple of teams to adopt the Team CSC anti-doping program, maybe it can snowball from there. "
Thanks Gerard!
TheBorg, I realized that we are socialized from an early age to compete…however, there is competing where it counts and competing for chicken shit. Age group triathlon is competing for chicken shit. Doing really well at work so that you can get a higher pay raise than your peers is a worthy reason to compete fair and square. I think we want to see the playing field level to pros can compete fair and square to earn a living. Age group triathlon competition is chicken shit in the big scheme of life. It puts no food on the table and sends no kids to college :-).
Hmm,
if CSC is relatively dope free
Then their performance as a team is extremely impressive. Must be the bike
agreeing with you and TheBorg and expanding on it by just saying this; you can choose to buy into these silly competitive, “keeping up with Joneses” ideals or step to the side and enjoy the entertainment of the silliness that ensues from this mentality.
Hey Gerard…I like you entire post, but don’t be knocking Bob Roll…in this past 2 years of doping scandals, my 10 year old still remained a TdF fan and I as able to use the cheats as example of what not to do in life…but on the balance, the 10 year old found Bob amusing in a weird way…yes, even a 10 year old can tell when Bob is way off…but it kept him tuning in !!!
I find it very hard to piss in a cup for the test
lets drive the cost of racing so high only white rich folks can do it
cheyou.
devashish, an age grouper would dope for the same reason an age grouper trains, or buys a $7000 bike and $2000 wheels
to go faster
why is that had to grasp?
not everyone has the same brain as you, some are wired that they care less about cheating, and/or fear for their health less and/or want to win more.
Or spend liberally on the products advertised by Hammer Nutrition and other companies. Of course, those products aren’t illegal, but there is a segment of the population who can’t or won’t draw the line between those pills and the illegal drugs.
I had never really thought much about testosterone use by AG triathletes, but after reading the recent interview with Baker, I have no doubt that there are aging AGers supplementing with testosterone to improve performance.
Since the early days, triathlon has emphasized AG competition. The best AGers in triathlon tend to get nearly as much publicity and sponsorship dollars as low-level pros, so along with the personality type required to be successful in triathlon, it doesn’t surprise me that there would be doping among AGers.
That being said, I don’t advocate AG testing. Too costly to weed out the sad cases.
Yeah, cuz testing in pro cycling is really working well. Oh wait.
I think Bob Roll is entertaining.
“so we don’t have to listen to Bob Roll anymore.”
Bob Roll Rocks!
True story: A mom that heads some fund raising committee at my kids’ school approached me one day. She happened to see this Bob Roll guy on TV one day and wanted to know how we could get him to come speak at a school fund raiser. She figured that since I ride a bike, I MUST know the guy 
Haim
Personally, if I were Gerard, I would be a complete hard-ass and do what I could to force Riis to employ testing protocols that at least equal those of Slipstream, even if it meant dropping the sponsorship.
Have you looked at the new anti-doping program of Team CSC? It’s already done.
FWIW, I consider the Slipstream sponsorship an excellent reason to buy a Felt bicycle, which is why my next ride will be a Felt.
Interesting point. But when I look at the specs of my next bike, “Manufactures support of doping teams” will be far down the list. Saying that Cervelo supports or contributes to the doping problem is just silly. If a top pro triathlete test positive and they ride a Felt, are you going to cancel your order?
Gerard,
I am glad to see that you are putting a foot forward toward a clean sport. These actions that you have taken are not proactive-they are reactive to a changing culture of doping. Team CSC anti-doping regime—Please, hire a doper to manage your team and you are less likely to get caught.
I have a very diffult time accepting that Cervelo supported financially and with equipment Barne Riis’s team managment-
Riis raced, won and coached a culture of doping… “but at least we were comfortable in the idea that we were not supporting one of the teams mentioned as dirty”… how do you figure that your company did not support organized doping from the team managment down?
I wish you continued success, I hope that you can use your influence and access to change a great sport.
Age group triathlon competition is chicken shit in the big scheme of life. It puts no food on the table and sends no kids to college :-).
So there’s no value in teaching your kids that fair play actually matters, unless people are making a living from whatever the competition is…alrighty then.