here’s my honest opinion, I’ve been riding my bike as a road cyclist for 2 years, running for a year and recently picked up swimming.
I’m slow, I’m not efficient, my technique sucks. BUT, after an hour or just a lap I’m not out of breath/tired like the majority of other new swimmers that have no aerobic background.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not in any way faster than them but it just feels like I can go back for another 50m quicker than them and I do not get too tired when swimming.
(which likely is saying that I’m not trying hard enough too)
I really don’t think many of the post answered the original question. Pretty much everyone on ST knows that to swim faster you need form/technique. Most would also agree that they know someone who runs like a gazelle but swims like a rock. That being said, it’s a benefit to bring aerobic fitness from another sport to swimming vs bringing the same level of technique (or lack thereof) with no aerobic fitness.
OP here. So for those that started swimming without having swam as a kid, I’m guessing it makes it much harder to learn proper technique as a adult. Any thoughts on how long it would take to acquire the proficiency to be able to last a mile w/o taking a break? Assuming you developed resonable form but had no prior training, how long does it take to develop the muscular endurance specific to swimming to go this distance? Assuming spending about an hour in the pool everyday. A couple of months? Years??
And I’m like the other poster that it doesn’t take much time to recover after doing 50m. But I do struggle with being able to do bilateral breathing for 100m without having to switch to same side breathing every other stroke. I’m swimming really slow front quadrant freestyle with a pull buoy. Just doing 50m repeats with a brief rest in between for about an hour.
From not swimming for years and years. Just comfortable in water but never swimming on a team ect when young. As an adult took me a couple of weeks to swim a mile straight.
FWIW, I am a fairly decent runner. My swimming had sucked for two years to the point I almost gave up the sport. I got to the point that I could swim a max of 1k at 3min/100. I got a coach, read books and didnt get better. I came across total immersion dvd (free snippets on youtube) and my swim ability increased exponentially, to the point that 2-3 mile swims are as frequent as long runs, and less exerting. Now, I feel as if my run fitness has translated, before ti, Id say no way.
Point being, your run fitness will not translate in any way until you know how to swim. If you dont have any technique, youll swim anaerobically, there is only so long you can keep that up.
Yeah, I’ve been looking at the TI freestyle DVD. Hadn’t gotten to watching all of yet. I can’t find the link to it but I was reading an article that talked about how just a small improvement in swimming efficiency translates to big gains and that time doing drills to work on form is much more productive than just covering distance. Completely different than training as a distance runner. Thanks for all the comments. I think I got my question answered.
I think it does. Everytime I go from the couch to swimming (no other aerobic), it takes around 3 weeks to be able to string together a workout that isn’t pathetic. When picking up swimming, with cycling and/or running fitness, it takes less than a week.
Finding Freestyle is an on-line program geared towards adult onset swimmers. It really helped me. The very low subscriber fee includes video feedback and structured workouts, which if you are going to do as many days a week as you say, you’ll really appreciate. Look for the 12 week program.
Wish this were so, if it were triathlon would be easy. Would be interesting to survey this but is ok runner/bad swimmer the most common scenario for age groupers?
I was a swam freestyle and ran the 400 hurdles in college and - yes - swimming fitness with carryover to running - just like fitness from biking, yoga, kayaking, etc will carry over to running. As a physical therapist - my advice is to ALWAYS cross train. Swimming is a great alternative to running because it is easier on the joints but also because there is a patterned breathing you have to use.
Distances and times for swimming verses running don’t always carry over so here is how I break it down in comparison…
50 meters/yards of swimming (2 lengths) = effort for the 100m running
100 swim (4 lengths) = 300m running
200 swim (8 lengths) = 600
300 swim = 1/2 mile
600 swim = mile of running
1650yards swim = 1500meters swim (1 mile of swimming) = 5k
3300 yards swim = 3000meters swim = 10k
So if you are training for a 10k - I suggest swimming 3000meters once or twice a week. It is OK to take breaks as needed but for only 10 - 30 seconds at a time. Not long enough to break the heart rate or breathing pattern. Honestly, it is easier to take 10 - 15 seconds rest and finish the 3000meters than to stop and take 5 minutes breaks. Just like running, once you stop and let your heart rate decrease, you have changed the intensity of the workout.
For longer distance workouts, I try to breath every 3 - 4 strokes, as needed. If you breath every 2 strokes, you are going to be breathing Faster and shallower than you would if you were running and you will fatigue faster. Stay calm and steady, keep your body, arms and legs strong and tight instead of fast and choppy.
Here are some workout ideas when training to improve your running
Wish this were so, if it were triathlon would be easy. Would be interesting to survey this but is ok runner/bad swimmer the most common scenario for age groupers?
I’ll best almost definitely, but mainly because the number of pure runners going into triathlon far exceeds the number of pure swimmers and cyclists (probably combined). Add the fact that there’s all the reasons to not spend a ton of time swim training even if it’s not your strength (shortest race distance, most logistics/wasted time traveling to workouts required, expense of coaching/masters/pool, and low return on investment even if you train hard), not at all surprising that more people are weaker on the swim.
If anything, while all the ex-competitive swimmers keep harping on why the heck runners/cyclists cant get it together and straighten out their swimming, I can’t understand why the swimmers can’t get their running together. Seriously, running is far more straightforward - get on a gradual incremental plan where you ramp up a little every week, work up to 50mpw, and toss in 1x speedwork per week, and you’ll improve quickly, and likely be FOP in less than 2 years if not shorter. It’s much harder to do the same with swimming - the logistics of getting to the pool with a job and family alone make it impossible for me with the small window of time I have to go there. I spend 30 minutes driving round trip for a 60-90 min swim workout. That’s 50% of lost time traveling for each swim workout . You don’t have that same logistical constraint with running (or even cycling) - just get up and go. No technique work or coaching needed for running.
I will answer this reverse of this question with my experience. 3 years ago I was swimming 18-20K per week. I was not a triathlete, just a swimmer. For the last 3 years, I have peaked out around 12K of swimming per week. However because of running and cycling I have spent a lot more time working out and I am - over all - a lot more fit. Consequently I am a lot faster in the water than I was when I was only swimming (though I cannot sprint for sh!t).
This is not what you are asking, but I think a masters swimmer who is only getting in 20K per week would be wise to drop in two 5-8 mile runs per week even at the expense of a swim workout.
I was a swam freestyle and ran the 400 hurdles in college and - yes - swimming fitness with carryover to running - just like fitness from biking, yoga, kayaking, etc will carry over to running. As a physical therapist - my advice is to ALWAYS cross train. Swimming is a great alternative to running because it is easier on the joints but also because there is a patterned breathing you have to use.
Distances and times for swimming verses running don’t always carry over so here is how I break it down in comparison…
50 meters/yards of swimming (2 lengths) = effort for the 100m running
100 swim (4 lengths) = 300m running
200 swim (8 lengths) = 600
300 swim = 1/2 mile
600 swim = mile of running
1650yards swim = 1500meters swim (1 mile of swimming) = 5k
3300 yards swim = 3000meters swim = 10k
So if you are training for a 10k - I suggest swimming 3000meters once or twice a week. It is OK to take breaks as needed but for only 10 - 30 seconds at a time. Not long enough to break the heart rate or breathing pattern. Honestly, it is easier to take 10 - 15 seconds rest and finish the 3000meters than to stop and take 5 minutes breaks. Just like running, once you stop and let your heart rate decrease, you have changed the intensity of the workout.
For longer distance workouts, I try to breath every 3 - 4 strokes, as needed. If you breath every 2 strokes, you are going to be breathing Faster and shallower than you would if you were running and you will fatigue faster. Stay calm and steady, keep your body, arms and legs strong and tight instead of fast and choppy.
Here are some workout ideas when training to improve your running
If you have a reasonable amount of coordination, aerobic fitness from another sport, and a decent person to help you, it should only take you a matter of weeks. I helped a 55 year old non-swimmer, with no athletic background, complete a 1/2 mile in a sprint tri comfortably with 2/week swims of about an hour. Her total training prior to the tri was about 6 weeks.
The best advice I can give you is to seek out a swim coach and share your goals with them.
NicoleG - thanks for those suggested workouts. In my case, I’m not a triathlete. I was purely a distance runner for about 8 yrs before I developed patellofemoral arthritis in my knees. My problem right now is my endurance. I swim mostly with a buoy and can do 2:10/100m with about 20-30 sec rests. This is after about 2 weeks of swimming with no prior swimming background. I don’t know if I’m going to fast or I just don’t have the swimming specific muscle endurance to last longer than 100m. It feels like I’m starting out at an aerobic effort but turns to anaerobic about 75m in. That’s about the time I have to switch from bilateral breathing to same side breathing every 3rd stroke.
Anyway, I live about 5 min away from a nice 50m pool so I’ve been going everyday for about 1-1.5 hrs. I just started doing some of the drills mentioned in the TI freestyle program. I’ll do that for about half the time and then switch to doing 100m repeats.
I find the same thing, my other tri/ cross training helps my swim especially skate skiing in winter. I don’t do lots of volume now but I have one of volume in my background as a swimmer. I remember the 20k weeks, we called that a taper.